Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberfinnegan
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    12 Sep '17 15:41
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    But how many hurricanes have the Brits experienced? Looks like the worse thing they get is a foggy day.
    AMBER WARNING of WIND for north Wales. northern parts of The Midlands, southern parts of northern England and the northern fringes of East Anglia.

    Between 00:05 Wed 13th and 06:00 Wed 13th

    Storm Aileen will bring a brief spell of very strong westerly winds with gusts of 65-75 mph during the early hours of Wednesday. Longer journey times by road, rail and air are looking likely, with restrictions on roads and bridges. Damage to trees and perhaps buildings, as well as power cuts are expected. Flying debris and large coastal waves are possible, and these could lead to injuries.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2635167#extra-uk-content

    Oh we suffer - if you only knew!
  2. Standard memberfinnegan
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    12 Sep '17 16:14
    Originally posted by @vivify
    America's human rights record is worse...but not when it comes to it's own citizens. Wars started in the name of fighting terrorism or acts committed to "protect" the world from communism, have all resulted in atrocities. The difference is that Americans, unlike Cubans, aren't in fear of execution for protesting the government. Well, at least if you're wh ...[text shortened]... front them, and don't care enough to learn about the sufferings this country has caused abroad.
    Angela Davis for example would disagree with you about the risk of execution for being politically radical. It is achieved of course by means of spurious or exaggerated criminal charges - any Black activist was likely to be criminalised and imprisoned, or held longer in prison, decapitating Black and left wing political leadership. She set this out as early as 1972 and things have got worse, not better, by a huge factor. Her paranoia about the role of J Edgar Hoover at the head of the FBI turned out to be fully justified. While she achieved her freedom others were far less fortunate and she has set out in some detail the nature of political prisoners in the US prison system.

    Oddly enough, some of her associates did end up (or spend time) as political refugees in Cuba. One is Assata Olugbala Shakur (often referred to by her married surname Chesimard), whom Trump has recently identified as a target for return to the USA. (The cheeky sod wants Cuba to release all its political prisoners.) Her Wiki record depicts the traditional cop killer image and urban guerilla storyline faithfully enough but the story has some quite different angles when described by Angela Davis and I found a sympathetic article, unsurprisingly, in the Guardian newspaper.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/13/assata-shakur-civil-rights-activist-fbi-most-wanted

    Even a US newspaper can see the logic of Cuba's position in granting asylum to Black activists, and the comparison of terrorists protected by the US in this article are more than revealing.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-cuba-assata-shakur-fbi-america-obama-perspec-1230-20141229-story.html

    "Cuba has long been a haven for African-Americans who've committed what might be interpreted as political crimes. Black Panthers such as Eldridge Cleaver, Huey Newton and Raymond Johnson all spent time in Cuba in the 1960s (not always happily). At one time it was speculated that as many as 90 African-Americans were living in Cuba under asylum. Indeed, Shakur is not even the only one who's been on an FBI wanted list; Victor Manuel Gerena has been on the Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list since 1984."

    "If the U.S. makes a serious request for Shakur, Cuba will undoubtedly counter with a request of its own for Luis Posada Carriles. The 86-year-old, who has long ties to the CIA and its covert activities in Latin America, is now living out his old age in Miami. Among his crimes: He was convicted in Panama of the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that killed 73 civilians. He has been suspected of planting bombs in Havana in 1997 (including one that killed an Italian tourist). He was arrested in Panama for an attempt on Fidel Castro's life but pardoned by the U.S.-supported president of that country in 2004."

    Yes the US really does care about labelling people as terrorists, but protects its own terrorists. Anyone who imagines the USA has no political prisoners is just sleeping on the job. Of course they are labelled 'criminal'. Isn't that what every country does with its political prisoners?
  3. SubscriberWajoma
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    13 Sep '17 11:552 edits
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Oh I was not concerned about my personal character at all thanks. I did think you were leaping to the defense of the USA and attacking Cuba in a more nationalistic way than my post justified. I have no time for nationalism in any form.
    .
    Mr self righteous is self righteous.

    Oh the irony finnegan, you do see your psychopathic anti-US perversion that has you gloating on the suffering and deaths of innocent people just because they happened to be in the wrong state at the wrong time is the flip side of the same nationalist coin.

    Yes the same coin, being anti a nation is the same as being pro a nation, all your soon to come excuses can be applied to either side of that coin. Being anti a nation does not make one anti-nationalist it makes you one of them.

    It's not that you have no time, it's that you devote most of your time on this message board to it.
  4. Standard memberfinnegan
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    13 Sep '17 13:261 edit
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Mr self righteous is self righteous.

    Oh the irony finnegan, you do see your psychopathic anti-US perversion that has you gloating on the suffering and deaths of innocent people just because they happened to be in the wrong state at the wrong time is the flip side of the same nationalist coin.

    Yes the same coin, being anti a nation is the same as ...[text shortened]... s not that you have no time, it's that you devote most of your time on this message board to it.
    Rubbish. Arguing in opposition to extreme nationalism is not nationalist. Arguing against the policies and politics of a nation is not nationalist. Complaining about the way the French treated Algeria, or the Israelis treat Palestinians, or the English have treated the Irish, or the Belgians treated the Congo, or multinationals undermine national governments and democracy, is not nationalist. You are such a twirp, popping up like a little troll with your infantile brainwaves. Try and bend your limited brain capacity to the topic of the thread and if you can think of anything useful or interesting or even relevant let us know.
  5. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    16 Sep '17 08:12
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Guam is the US and they are well prepared.
    And Parsons Green is the United Kingdom.

    You've gotta lay off those stupid pills ... they're gonna kill you.
  6. SubscriberWajoma
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    19 Sep '17 12:502 edits
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Rubbish. Arguing in opposition to extreme nationalism is not nationalist. Arguing against the policies and politics of a nation is not nationalist. Complaining about the way the French treated Algeria, or the Israelis treat Palestinians, or the English have treated the Irish, or the Belgians treated the Congo, or multinationals undermine national governme ...[text shortened]... the thread and if you can think of anything useful or interesting or even relevant let us know.
    My post was on topic, relevant and judging by the knee-jerk-wad response, on mark.

    Right, it's 'extreme nationalism' now. Noted.

    So a person feeling pride in a country because of the good things is bad, but your incessant harping on a country for bad things is good?

    And you cannot see the similarity.
  7. Standard memberfinnegan
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    19 Sep '17 13:08
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    My post was on topic, relevant and judging by the knee-jerk-wad response, on mark.

    Right, it's '[b]extreme
    nationalism' now. Noted.

    So a person feeling pride in a country because of the good things is bad, but your incessant harping on a country for bad things is good?

    And you cannot see the similarity.[/b]
    Selective misquoting is the mark of a troll. I offered a lilst of scenarios with the clear implication that I could extend that list indefinitely to support my point. You seized one phrase and could not even manage to read to the second sentence:

    "Arguing against the policies and politics of a nation is not nationalist."

    In general. you have nothing interesting to contribute and seem to have turned to word puzzles as your new hobby horse. Shame the words emerge scrambled from your posts.
  8. Zugzwang
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    19 Sep '17 19:341 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify to Finnegan
    This doesn't follow one bit from anything I've said.

    America's political and legal system being infested with corruption at every level doesn't change the fact that the communist dictatorship of the Cuban government isn't comparable to democratic state government of Florida.

    Until people start paddling 90 miles across the ocean to escape ...[text shortened]... y given how much easier it is for a dictator to accomplish this) as I said, isn't entirely fair.
    "Regarding allocating resources, it's much harder to get enough of the required members of
    a government body to vote one specific way, than it is for a dictatorship to demand something>"
    --Vivify (to Finnegan)

    It's true that a dictatorship can apply more power to *coerce* people into doing or at least
    complying with something that's *unpopular*. But a dictatorship is not necessarily more
    efficient at *mobilizing* the people in support of a *popular* cause.

    After Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, there was about universal support in the USA for a
    war of revenge against Japan. (War against Germany and Italy was less popular, but
    Germany declared war on the USA *before* the USA declared war on Germany.)
    Even if the USA had been ruled by a dictator, it hardly could have mobilized as quickly
    and with as little dissent in support of the war effort.

    It's also true that a democracy can persecute an hated minority as much as a dictatorship can.
    The USA's conquest (including the genocide of some tribes) of the 'Indians' seems at
    least as ruthless as Tsarist Russia's imperialist expansion into the Caucasus and Asia.

    In this case, I know of no reason to believe that preparing of hurricanes would be *unpopular* in Cuba.
    So I suspect that a democratic government in Cuba probably would do about as much
    as a Communist dictatorship, with general public support, for hurricanes.
  9. Zugzwang
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    19 Sep '17 19:52
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Regarding allocating resources, it's much harder to get enough of the required members of
    a government body to vote one specific way, than it is for a dictatorship to demand something>"
    --Vivify (to Finnegan)

    It's true that a dictatorship can apply more power to *coerce* people into doing or at least
    complying with something that's *unpopular*. ...[text shortened]... ould do about as much
    as a Communist dictatorship, with general public support, for hurricanes.
    China's situated between two vast geological faults--the Pacific Rim and the Himalayas--
    and has a terrible history of earthquakes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_China

    Obsessed with earthquake preparation, in the 1970s Chinese scientists (naively) hoped that they
    could learn to predict earthquakes. (As of today, there's still no reliable method of earthquake prediction).
    So China's government mobilized the public to help its scientists. Across China, millions (perhaps)
    of volunteers (including many students) spent time collecting seismic data to be analyzed.
    (This was in a pre-internet era when people could not just send data to a scientific website.)
    The greatest success came with the 1975 earthquake in Haicheng.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Haicheng_earthquake

    "Early in the morning of February 4, 1975, Chinese officials ordered that the city of Haicheng
    be evacuated, believing there to be a large chance of an earthquake occurring. ...
    Though this particular prediction of the earthquake was initially believed to be just the
    latest in a recent string of false alarms that had occurred in the preceding months ...
    the evacuation of Haicheng proceeded anyway and eventually paid off. ...

    The evacuation, despite successfully evacuating most of Haicheng's population, did
    not prevent deaths in its entirety. When the main quake struck at 7:36 pm, 2,041 people died,
    over 27,000 were injured and thousands of buildings collapsed. However, the death toll
    was much lower than the estimate of over 150,000 dead which is believed to have resulted
    if the evacuation had not taken place.[6] *This was the only successful evacuation of a
    potentially affected population before a devastating earthquake in history.*"

    Unfortunately, scientists failed to predict the 1976 earthquake that destroyed Tangshan.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tangshan_earthquake

    If China had a democratic government, then would the evacuation of Haicheng have taken place?
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