Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    15 Feb '19 20:30
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/15/the-us-hidden-empire-overseas-territories-united-states-guam-puerto-rico-american-samoa

    "How the US has hidden its empire.
    The United States likes to think of itself as a republic, but it holds territories all
    over the world – the map you always see doesn’t tell the whole story."

    "What if ]President] Roosevelt’s audience didn’t care that Japan had attacked
    the Philippines or Guam? Polls taken slightly before the attack show that
    few in the continental US supported a military defense of those remote territories."

    "It also suggests that the US is a politically uniform space: a union, voluntarily
    entered into, of states standing on equal footing with one another.
    But that is not true, and it has never been true. From its founding until
    the present day, the US has contained a union of American states,
    as its name suggests. But it has also contained another part: not a union,
    not states and (for most of its history) not wholly in the Americas – its territories."

    "If you lived in the US on the eve of the second world war, in other
    words, you were more likely to be colonised than black. …
    The racism that had pervaded the country since slavery also engulfed the territories.
    Like African Americans, colonial subjects were denied the vote, deprived
    of the rights of full citizens, called racial epithets, subjected to
    dangerous medical experiments and used as sacrificial pawns in war."

    "What getting the Greater United States in view reveals is that race
    has been even more central to US history than is usually supposed.
    It hasn’t just been about black and white, but about Filipino, Hawaiian,
    Samoan and Chamoru (from Guam), too, among other identities."

    "One of the truly distinctive features of the US’s empire is how persistently
    ignored it has been. This is, it is worth emphasising, unique.
    The British weren’t confused as to whether there was a British empire.
    They had a holiday, Empire Day, to celebrate it."

    "The reason is not hard to guess. The country [USA] perceives itself
    to be a republic, not an empire ...This self-image of the US as a
    republic is consoling, but it is also costly. Most of the cost has been
    paid by those living in the colonies and around the military bases. ..
    At various times, the inhabitants of the US empire have been shot,
    shelled, starved, interned, dispossessed, tortured and experimented on."
  2. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    15 Feb '19 21:051 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/08/unlearning-the-myth-of-american-innocence

    "Unlearning the myth of American innocence
    When she was 30, Suzy Hansen left the US for Istanbul – and began to realise that Americans
    will never understand their own country until they see it as the rest of the world does."

    "For all their patriotism, Americans rarely think about how their national identities
    relate to their personal ones. This indifference is particular to the psychology of
    white Americans and has a history unique to the US. In recent years, however, this
    national identity has become more difficult to ignore. Americans can no longer
    travel in foreign countries without noticing the strange weight we carry with us."

    "We were all patriotic, but I can’t even conceive of what else we could have been,
    because our entire experience was domestic, interior, American. … The lone Asian
    kid in our class studied hard and went to Berkeley; the Indian went to Yale. …
    The world was white, Christian; the world was us.

    We did not study world maps, because international geography, as a subject, had
    been phased out of many state curriculums long before. There was no sense of
    the US being one country on a planet of many countries."

    "I’d had no idea that we had ever had to define our identities at all, because to me,
    white Americans were born fully formed, completely detached from any sort of complicated past."

    "White Americans are probably the sickest and certainly the most dangerous people,
    of any colour, to be found in the world today."
    --James Baldwin

    "I know why this came as a shock to me then, at the age of 22, and it wasn’t necessarily
    because he said I was sick, though that was part of it. It was because he kept calling
    me that thing: “white American”. In my reaction I justified his accusation. I knew I
    was white, and I knew I was American, but it was not what I understood to be my identity.
    For me, self-definition was about gender, personality, religion, education, dreams.
    I only thought about finding myself, becoming myself, discovering myself – and
    this, I hadn’t known, was the most white American thing of all.

    I still did not think about my place in the larger world, or that perhaps an entire
    history – the history of white Americans – had something to do with who I was.
    My lack of consciousness allowed me to believe I was innocent"

    "But it is very, very rare that young white Americans come across someone who
    tells them in harsh, unforgiving terms that they might be merely the easy winners
    of an ugly game, and indeed that because of their ignorance and misused power,
    they might be the losers within a greater moral universe."
    --Suzy Hansen
  3. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14737
    15 Feb '19 22:06
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/15/the-us-hidden-empire-overseas-territories-united-states-guam-puerto-rico-american-samoa

    "How the US has hidden its empire.
    The United States likes to think of itself as a republic, but it holds territories all
    over the world – the map you always see doesn’t tell the whole story."

    "What if ]President] Roosevelt’s audience ...[text shortened]... US empire have been shot,
    shelled, starved, interned, dispossessed, tortured and experimented on."
    Come on Duchess, most people don't even understand what an empire is, but educated people that do must be told we are not an empire so they do not bring up ethical issues. Didn't some British people criticize their government for being an empire back when it was an overt empire?

    If you were running an empire wouldn't you want to make it covert?
  4. Joined
    27 Jul '10
    Moves
    29427
    15 Feb '19 22:10
    @metal-brain said
    Come on Duchess, most people don't even understand what an empire is, but educated people that do must be told we are not an empire so they do not bring up ethical issues. Didn't some British people criticize their government for being an empire back when it was an overt empire?

    If you were running an empire wouldn't you want to make it covert?
    Metal Brain, prepare yourself for a flood of stuff Duchess will pull down from some Google expedition. Y’all read her ‘forwards’ im going to play chess.
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    16 Feb '19 03:51
    @metal-brain said
    Come on Duchess, most people don't even understand what an empire is, but educated people that do must be told we are not an empire so they do not bring up ethical issues. Didn't some British people criticize their government for being an empire back when it was an overt empire?

    If you were running an empire wouldn't you want to make it covert?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires

    The British Empire was the largest empire in land area ever.
    There was nothing covert about it. Queen Victoria was Empress of India.
  6. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14737
    16 Feb '19 03:59
    @duchess64 said
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires

    The British Empire was the largest empire in land area ever.
    There was nothing covert about it. Queen Victoria was Empress of India.
    I said the British Empire was overt, not covert.
    Why would an empire rather be overt instead of covert if possible? Given a choice, which would you prefer if you were running an empire?
    BTW, why is the UK and France helping the USA invade many countries? Are they deliberately helping an empire or are they doing it unwittingly?
  7. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    22108
    17 Feb '19 12:17
    @duchess64 said
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires

    The British Empire was the largest empire in land area ever.
    There was nothing covert about it. Queen Victoria was Empress of India.
    Duchess64: Wikipedia Genius!

    It cracks me up that some on this site ever afforded credibility to this woman's corpulent fraud.

    For some weird reason, she feels obsessively compelled to look up anti-Americanisms on the internet and then post them here.

    FACTS: The world has many problems. The United States is not at the root of all of them.
  8. Joined
    27 Jul '10
    Moves
    29427
    17 Feb '19 15:45
    @wolfe63 said
    Duchess64: Wikipedia Genius!

    It cracks me up that some on this site ever afforded credibility to this woman's corpulent fraud.

    For some weird reason, she feels obsessively compelled to look up anti-Americanisms on the internet and then post them here.

    FACTS: The world has many problems. The United States is not at the root of all of them.
    Exactly, Wolfe63. would you mind taking on the task of, er, reducing and cyphering and translating the posts of the Duchess. She is obviously smart, and would be interesting to read, but those incessant forwards and cites,,,,,,not so interesting.
  9. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
    Joined
    14 Mar '15
    Moves
    11003
    17 Feb '19 16:38
    @wolfe63 said
    Duchess64: Wikipedia Genius!

    It cracks me up that some on this site ever afforded credibility to this woman's corpulent fraud.

    For some weird reason, she feels obsessively compelled to look up anti-Americanisms on the internet and then post them here.

    FACTS: The world has many problems. The United States is not at the root of all of them.
    For a second there sir I thought you were calling Queen Victoria, Empress of India, 'corpulent'.

    We would not have been amused.

    😴
  10. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    22108
    17 Feb '19 16:53
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    For a second there sir I thought you were calling Queen Victoria, Empress of India, 'corpulent'.

    We would not have been amused.

    😴
    Hahaha! Yeah, you're right.
    I should have substituted with "bloated fakery".
  11. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    22108
    17 Feb '19 16:57
    @averagejoe1 said
    Exactly, Wolfe63. would you mind taking on the task of, er, reducing and cyphering and translating the posts of the Duchess. She is obviously smart, and would be interesting to read, but those incessant forwards and cites,,,,,,not so interesting.
    Would that I could my man.
    Would that I could.

    But, contemplating time, while watching the second hand swirling around my tick-tock might be more interesting. 😊
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
    tinyurl.com/y43jqfyd
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    17 Feb '19 17:04
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    For a second there sir I thought you were calling Queen Victoria, Empress of India, 'corpulent'.

    We would not have been amused.

    😴
    She WAS a tubby woman.
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    17 Feb '19 18:353 edits
    @wolfe63 said
    Duchess64: Wikipedia Genius!

    It cracks me up that some on this site ever afforded credibility to this woman's corpulent fraud.

    For some weird reason, she feels obsessively compelled to look up anti-Americanisms on the internet and then post them here.

    FACTS: The world has many problems. The United States is not at the root of all of them.
    “The problem with white people is that they just don’t listen. In my experience, day
    in and day out, most white people are absolutely not receptive to finding out their
    impact on other people. There is a refusal to know or see, or to listen or hear, or to validate.”
    --Robin DiAngelo (white American sociologist)

    The willfully ignorant (at best) Wolfe63's jingoism and racism are common to white Americans,
    evidently believing that US propaganda must be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

    "White Americans are probably the sickest and certainly the most dangerous people,
    of any colour, to be found in the world today."
    --James Baldwin

    "I know why this came as a shock to me then, at the age of 22, and it wasn’t necessarily
    because he said I was sick, though that was part of it. It was because he kept calling
    me that thing: “white American”. In my reaction I justified his accusation. I knew I
    was white, and I knew I was American, but it was not what I understood to be my identity.
    For me, self-definition was about gender, personality, religion, education, dreams.
    I only thought about finding myself, becoming myself, discovering myself – and
    this, I hadn’t known, was the most white American thing of all.

    I still did not think about my place in the larger world, or that perhaps an entire
    history – the history of white Americans – had something to do with who I was.
    My lack of consciousness allowed me to believe I was innocent"

    "But it is very, very rare that young white Americans come across someone who
    tells them in harsh, unforgiving terms that they might be merely the easy winners
    of an ugly game, and indeed that because of their ignorance and misused power,
    they might be the losers within a greater moral universe."
    --Suzy Hansen

    Why should anyone be surprised that Donald Trump's adored by many, though
    now not most, white Americans?
Back to Top