Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    11 Jun '18 12:49
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/democrats-must-reject-howard-schultz-president-democrats-radical-ideology.html

    Hell no, Dims won't vote for him. He says that the socialist agenda cannot be realistically implemented in a country so heavily in debt.

    Maybe if he dyed his hair purple and pierced his nipples and had a sex change would they consider putting him in the DNC platform, but probably not even then.
  2. Joined
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    11 Jun '18 12:50
    Howard Schultz is the quintessential corporate Democrat. As CEO of Starbucks, Schultz preached (and, arguably practiced) the gospel of “conscious capitalism” — a creed that insists corporations can do well for their shareholders, by doing good for the world. He supports a wide variety of progressive goals that do not involve taking money away from rich people — and even endorses a few that do. His bona fides as a “woke” billionaire are so robust, Hillary Clinton had reportedly planned to make him her Labor Secretary.

    On Monday, Schultz resigned from the board of his coffee company, and signaled interest in a potential run for president. The coffee magnate has left his precise intentions for 2020 unclear — but he’s made his desire to influence the Democratic Party’s internal politics unambiguous.

    In recent interviews, Schultz has argued that progressive Democrats have grown so rigidly ideological, they can no longer recognize basic political and policy realities.

    He has also contended that the wealthiest nation in human history can’t afford to provide public health insurance to all of its citizens; that the national debt is a bigger threat to the United States than climate change; and that Democrats would be wise to demonstrate “leadership” to the electorate — by calling for cuts to Social Security and Medicare.



    “It concerns me that so many voices within the Democratic Party are going so far to the left,” Schultz told CNBC Tuesday. “I say to myself, ‘How are we going to pay for these things,’ in terms of things like single payer [and] people espousing the fact that the government is going to give everyone a job. I don’t think that’s realistic.”





    Schultz went on to say, “I think the greatest threat domestically to the country is this $21 trillion debt hanging over the cloud of America and future generations … The only way we’re going to get out of that is we’ve got to grow the economy, in my view, 4 percent or greater. And then we have to go after entitlements.”

    In an interview with Time magazine earlier this year, Schultz argued that any fair-minded Democrat — or Republican — would reach this same conclusion, if they only left “their ideology outside the room and recognized that we’re here to walk in the shoes of the American people.”



    But there’s nothing “realistic” or “non-ideological” about Schultz’s worldview. In fact, his ideological commitments are more detached from empirical and political reality than are those of the left-wing Democrats he decries.

    There is no mathematical reason why the U.S. government cannot “afford” single-payer health care. America has a higher per-capita GDP than Denmark, Canada, France, the United Kingdom, and virtually all other European and Asian nations that boast universal health insurance systems. The U.S. also has lower tax rates than most developed nations — and spends more on its military than China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, France, United Kingdom, and Japan combined. There is no question that America has the means to ensure that all of its residents have high-quality, affordable health care. The fact that the U.S. declines to do so is the product of political choices not technical necessities.

    America does have a genuine problem with rising health-care costs. But keeping those costs off of Uncle Sam’s books doesn’t make them disappear. In fact, it likely makes them more of a problem: Single-payer systems have had a much easier time of containing costs than America’s has. (There are worthwhile arguments for the political merits of pursuing a strong public option over a rapid transition to single payer, but Schultz didn’t make one of those.)





    Further, the idea that the national debt is the greatest domestic threat to the United States is nearly as indefensible. The U.S. government is not like a household or a business (although, plenty of businesses recognize the benefits of debt-financed investment) because it can print its own currency. And unlike Venezuela, our currency is backed by a vast and dynamic economy, and the largest military in world history. This makes our debt an exceptionally safe investment, in a world growing ever more crowded with savers desperate for a secure place to store their wealth. For this and other reasons, racking up $21 trillion of debt hasn’t prevented America from continuing to borrow money at near-zero interest rates. And there is little reason to expect those rates to spike rapidly at any point in the foreseeable future. Currently, America’s debt is equal to a little over 100 percent of its GDP. Japan, meanwhile, has debt equal to 250 percent of its GDP — and can still borrow money at virtually no cost.

    The other downside to running high deficits is that they have the potential to fuel inflation — but after a decade of deficit-spending and accommodative monetary policy, America’s inflation rate remains below the Federal Reserve’s target. For now, our economy could use more inflation — not less — and there is no basis for believing that inflation will just start accelerating rapidly once we’ve gone too far.

    In this context, it is not realistic to believe that reducing government spending should take precedence over making massive investments in a clean energy grid; it is delusional.

    Finally, Schultz’s fixation on entitlement cuts betrays either an ignorance of — or callous indifference to — the bleak finances of America’s retirees. The collapse of private-sector pensions — along with the failure of wage growth to keep pace with the rising costs of health care, housing, and higher education — has left Americans more dependent on Social Security benefits for their retirements, not less: As of 2016, nearly half of U.S. families had no retirement account savings at all, according to a report from the Economic Policy Institute (EPI).





    But Schultz’s radical centrism doesn’t just render him incapable of putting evidence above ideology on policy matters; it also compels him to put purity above pragmatism on the electoral front. The conscious capitalist’s combination of socially liberal beliefs (he’s pro-gun control, immigration, and gay marriage) and fiscally conservative ones (he wants to cut Medicare and Social Security) might put him at the “center” of the ideological spectrum at Davos. But those views put him on the radical fringe in the United States: According to data collected by the Voter Study Group, the percentage of the 2016 electorate that held right-of-center views on economic matters — and left-of center ones on “identity” issues — was a whopping 3.8 percent.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Jun '18 13:23
    "Corporate" ANYthing has no business being in government.

    The goal of running this country should be to make everyone's lives better, not just the top 1%.

    "Businessmen" have no place in government. Haven't we had enough with the last eighteen months of greed and ego in the White House?
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    11 Jun '18 13:36
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Howard Schultz is the quintessential corporate Democrat. As CEO of Starbucks, Schultz preached (and, arguably practiced) the gospel of “conscious capitalism” — a creed that insists corporations can do well for their shareholders, by doing good for the world. He supports a wide variety of progressive goals that do not involve taking money away from rich peopl ...[text shortened]... on economic matters — and left-of center ones on “identity” issues — was a whopping 3.8 percent.
    Sounds like you would love him if he was Republican.....
  5. Joined
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    11 Jun '18 13:501 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    "Corporate" ANYthing has no business being in government.

    The goal of running this country should be to make everyone's lives better, not just the top 1%.

    "Businessmen" have no place in government. Haven't we had enough with the last eighteen months of greed and ego in the White House?
    Right, when lawyers have done such a good job?

    At what point does the debt trouble you Suzy? We hear all kinds of economic professionals express concern amassing the largest debt in human history, yet these lawyers in Washington don't seem concerned.

    How bout how well lawyers have handled foreign affairs. I bet you are pleased as punch with Obama taking out Gaddafi and handing it over to ISIS on the premise of saving Muslim lives that were "threatened" and how he ignore the plight of Christians in Syria as they were rounded up and executed on mass, also known as a genocide.

    Yes, lawyers have done such a swell job, it's almost as if there is nothing they can't do.
  6. Joined
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    11 Jun '18 13:52
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    Sounds like you would love him if he was Republican.....
    I respect the fact that he can run a successful business, even if I disagree with a great many of his ideologies.

    He at least recognizes that economic insolvency is just around the corner, and the only way to fight it off is with the economic growth that socialism just can't provide.
  7. Behind the scenes
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    11 Jun '18 14:06
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/democrats-must-reject-howard-schultz-president-democrats-radical-ideology.html

    Hell no, Dims won't vote for him. He says that the socialist agenda cannot be realistically implemented in a country so heavily in debt.

    Maybe if he dyed his hair purple and pierced his nipples and had a sex change would they consider putting him in the DNC platform, but probably not even then.
    Whodey, on rare occasions your posts make a lot of sense. This is NOT one of those occasions. 😞
  8. Joined
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    11 Jun '18 14:13
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Whodey, on rare occasions your posts make a lot of sense. This is NOT one of those occasions. 😞
    So I will ask you, are you worried about the massive debt and will killing a free market make it worse?
  9. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    11 Jun '18 17:35
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    "Corporate" ANYthing has no business being in government.

    The goal of running this country should be to make everyone's lives better, not just the top 1%.

    "Businessmen" have no place in government. Haven't we had enough with the last eighteen months of greed and ego in the White House?
    You'll be eating those words when he wins the nomination. I'm not saying that in a mean-spirited way. I truly believe he will be the Democrat nominee. The rest of the field is old and tired.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Jun '18 17:42
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    You'll be eating those words when he wins the nomination. I'm not saying that in a mean-spirited way. I truly believe he will be the Democrat nominee. The rest of the field is old and tired.
    Really? People like Kamala Harris and Kristen Gillibrand are "old and tired"?
  11. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    11 Jun '18 17:46
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Really? People like Kamala Harris and Kristen Gillibrand are "old and tired"?
    Sanders, Biden -- these are the names I'm hearing as legit candidates for the nomination. I welcome a younger generation. Are either of those serious contenders?
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Jun '18 17:59
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Sanders, Biden -- these are the names I'm hearing as [b]legit candidates for the nomination. I welcome a younger generation. Are either of those serious contenders?[/b]
    I really don't think Bernie is going to run again. You are right about Biden; I doubt I'd vote for him even against Trump.

    I think the Democrats are likely to nominate a woman and if Warren doesn't run (and I don't think she will), they are the two most mentioned.
  13. Joined
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    11 Jun '18 18:351 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    I really don't think Bernie is going to run again. You are right about Biden; I doubt I'd vote for him even against Trump.

    I think the Democrats are likely to nominate a woman and if Warren doesn't run (and I don't think she will), they are the two most mentioned.
    Nominate a woman?

    Why not a Hispanic/Afro/Asian as long as they are of the right race which is non-white?

    Seriously, this is why everyone hates the Dims. They focus only on race and sex, more so than Hitler ever did.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Jun '18 18:47
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Nominate a woman?

    Why not a Hispanic/Afro/Asian as long as they are of the right race which is non-white?

    Seriously, this is why everyone hates the Dims. They focus only on race and sex, more so than Hitler ever did.
    You are a partisan nut.

    No one said or suggested that the only criteria that should be used is a candidate's sex so your comment is a typical hysterical exaggeration.

    My own opinion is that a female candidate not named Clinton would play well to the party's strengths and the Donald's political weaknesses. And the two candidates are well qualified, "fresh faces".
  15. Joined
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    11 Jun '18 19:02
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    You are a partisan nut.

    No one said or suggested that the only criteria that should be used is a candidate's sex so your comment is a typical hysterical exaggeration.

    My own opinion is that a female candidate not named Clinton would play well to the party's strengths and the Donald's political weaknesses. And the two candidates are well qualified, "fresh faces".
    in other words, you want the Dims to play the sex card instead of the race card.

    Now if they get a black woman, they will have the best of both worlds and you will be in partisan heaven.
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