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Debates Forum

  1. 24 May '10 14:52
    Why has Texas not jumped on board with Arizona by wanting to enforce the federal laws on immigration? Why is this the case, especiallly in light of them being a conservative state? I recently spoke to someone who is from there and he gave me some insight into the situation. He said that right now the economy is booming in Texas and is fueled by the illegals. He then said the only way they would adopt similar legislation that Arizona did was for the eonomy to tank there. I then asked him about the crime rates in Texas concerning illegals and he had to admit that the situation along the borders was a bit out of hand. So in assessing what he was telling me, it appears that Texas would come down hard on illegals ONLY if the eonomy tanked and/or the crime in Texas becomes so outrageous that the populace demands action.

    So what say you? Anyone from Texas with some insight? Anyone agree with this assessment. With all that big money in Texas wanting to protect the illegals, no wonder neither party wants to enforce the federal laws.
  2. 24 May '10 16:46
    the border is relatively isolated from the rest of texas. on the coast, the King Ranch is between the Valley and the rest of the state; that's around 100 miles of highway (Harlingen to Kinsgville). similar situation applies inland, lots of farm or ranch land or desert (the Big Bend) between the border and any major cities except for El Paso, which is 80 pct hispanic.

    i guess the situation looks similar in AZ, lots of desert along the border, but the second largest city (Tucson) is only 70 mi from the border. that's in Pima County, overseen by the sheriff who was quoted earlier in one of the threads as refusing to enforce the immigration laws, IIRC.

    the crime problems re Ciudad Juarez are likely not going to make big news in the rest of texas.

    i remember reading in Natl Geo once, in an article about the Border, that Mexicans and whites get along a lot better in TX than in CA. don't remember the reason. maybe it is the longer, more gradual association. CA got really big really quick.

    ---

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_paso,_tx#Demographics

    ...

    According to the 2006 United States Census Bureau population estimates, the El Paso metropolitan area had a population of 736,310.[23] As of December 3, 2007, El Paso is ranked the second safest city in the US with a population greater than 500,000.[24]

    Around 2010 many Mexicans fleeing drug violence in Ciudad Juarez settled in El Paso. Benjamin Sáenz, a novelist and a literature professor at the University of Texas at El Paso, said during that year that El Paso was "becoming a lot more Mexican and a lot less Chicano."[25]
  3. 24 May '10 16:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why has Texas not jumped on board with Arizona by wanting to enforce the federal laws on immigration? Why is this the case, especiallly in light of them being a conservative state? I recently spoke to someone who is from there and he gave me some insight into the situation. He said that right now the economy is booming in Texas and is fueled by the illegal ...[text shortened]... exas wanting to protect the illegals, no wonder neither party wants to enforce the federal laws.
    yeah re illegal employment, i don't think there is much competition for picking cotton etc.. it's not cool. and rural by definition, who wants to live outside the cities? not many, evidently!
  4. 24 May '10 17:20
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why has Texas not jumped on board with Arizona by wanting to enforce the federal laws on immigration? Why is this the case, especiallly in light of them being a conservative state? I recently spoke to someone who is from there and he gave me some insight into the situation. He said that right now the economy is booming in Texas and is fueled by the illegal ...[text shortened]... exas wanting to protect the illegals, no wonder neither party wants to enforce the federal laws.
    well, if its helping the economy why should it be stopped?

    I then asked him about the crime rates in Texas concerning illegals and he had to admit that the situation along the borders was a bit out of hand.

    considering its always been like that, it is pointless to expect it will magically improve.

    Anyone agree with this assessment

    it seems to be pretty accurate.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 May '10 17:27
    Originally posted by whodey
    So what say you?
    Enforce the law. Everywhere. Consitently. Encourage and allow more legal immigration.
  6. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    24 May '10 17:27
    Originally posted by FMF
    Enforce the law. Everywhere. Consitently. Encourage and allow more legal immigration.
    ATYSOA
  7. 24 May '10 17:41
    Originally posted by FMF
    Enforce the law. Everywhere. Consitently. Encourage and allow more legal immigration.
    they would have done that by now if they could.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 May '10 17:47
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    they would have done that by now if they could.
    If you think this then why did you say you agreed with the assessment offered by whodey in the OP?
  9. 24 May '10 17:55
    Originally posted by FMF
    If you think this then why did you say you agreed with the assessment offered by whodey in the OP?
    what does one thing have to do with another?

    whodey's assessement was that they enforce the law once the economy was no longer booming, and this is probably true, they'd try that, but I doubt it would work.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 May '10 18:00
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    whodey's assessement was that they enforce the law once the economy was no longer booming, and this is probably true, they'd try that, but I doubt it would work.
    The more germane part of whodey's assessment was that significant players in the Texas political economy are very content with the status quo. To which my response was : enforce the law, which of course would work - if there were the political will. It is this political will that is the issue in the U.S. right now, not the ability to enforce the law.
  11. 24 May '10 18:03
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    ATYSOA
    =?
  12. 24 May '10 18:06
    Originally posted by FMF
    The more germane part of whodey's assessment was that significant players in the Texas political economy are very content with the status quo. To which my response was : enforce the law, which of course would work - if there were the political will. It is this political will that is the issue in the U.S. right now, not the ability to enforce the law.
    The more germane part of whodey's assessment was that significant players in the Texas political economy are very content with the status quo

    yes.

    To which my response was : enforce the law, which of course would work - if there were the political will.

    yes, and I said they'd try it, but I doubt it would work.
    Considering the way illegals manage to get in despite the already existent immigration controls clearly indicates that ultimately it is impossible to stop people from getting in.


    It is this political will that is the issue in the U.S. right now, not the ability to enforce the law.


    obviously, political will is the key to fight illegal immigration, but then again illegals will always manage to get in one way or another, and any attempt at enforcing the law is met with fierce opposition from the left, as we have seen in arizona. It seems unlikely the situation will improve any time soon.
  13. 24 May '10 18:09
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_%E2%80%93_United_States_barrier

    The Mexico – United States barrier — also known in the United States as the border fence or border wall — is actually several separation barriers designed to prevent illegal movement across the Mexico – United States border. The barriers were built as part of three larger "Operations" to taper transportation of illegal drugs manufactured in Latin America and illegal immigration: Operation Gatekeeper in California, Operation Hold-the-Line [1] in Texas, and Operation Safeguard[2] in Arizona. The barriers are strategically placed to mitigate the flow of illegal border crossings along the Mexico – United States international border into the Southwestern United States. Opponents claim the barriers are a taxpayer boondoggle, an ineffective deterrent and that the barriers inappropriately jeopardize the health and safety of those seeking illegal entry into the United States, as well as destroy animal habitat, prevent animals from reaching water, disturb animal migration patterns, and otherwise damage the environment.

    * 1 General impact on illegal immigration
    * 2 Barrier status
    o 2.1 Secure Fence Act
    o 2.2 Rethinking the expansion
    o 2.3 Expansion freeze
    * 3 Controversy
    o 3.1 Divided land
    o 3.2 Hidalgo County
    o 3.3 Mexico
    o 3.4 Environmental impact
    * 4 Public opinion in the United States
    * 5 See also
    * 6 References
    * 7 External links
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 May '10 18:11
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Considering the way illegals manage to get in despite the already existent immigration controls clearly indicates that ultimately it is impossible to stop people from getting in.
    The "already existent immigration controls" are shaped by the lack of political will and therefore what "illegals manage to [do]" currently indicates nothing with regards to what would be possible if there were to be the necessary political will to enforce the law and tighten immigration controls.
  15. 24 May '10 18:12
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_%E2%80%93_United_States_barrier

    The Mexico – United States barrier — also known in the United States as the border fence or border wall — is actually several separation barriers designed to prevent illegal movement across the Mexico – United States border. The barriers were built as part of three larger "Operations" t ...[text shortened]... lic opinion in the United States
    * 5 See also
    * 6 References
    * 7 External links
    ...

    ...

    The government of Mexico and ministers of several Latin American countries have condemned the plans.[14] Rick Perry, governor of Texas, also expressed his opposition saying that instead of closing the border it should be opened more and through technology support legal and safe migration.[15] The barrier expansion has also been opposed by a unanimous vote of the Laredo, Texas City Council.[16] Laredo's Mayor, Raul G. Salinas, is concerned about defending his town's people by saying that the Bill which includes miles of border wall would devastate Laredo. He states "these are people that are sustaining our economy by forty percent, and I am gonna [sic] close the door on them and put [up] a wall? You don't do that. It's like a slap in the face." He hopes that Congress would revise the Bill that better reflects the realities of life on the border.[17] There are no plans to build border fence in Laredo at this time.