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  1. 12 Aug '17 12:57 / 1 edit
    http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-is-right-millions-of-illegals-probably-did-vote-in-2016/

    Media Bias: Not surprisingly, the media take seriously and support Jill Stein's and Hillary Clinton's excellent vote-recount adventure, despite there being no indication a recount is needed. Heck, even President Obama agrees — Donald Trump won, period. But when Trump dares to suggest in a Sunday tweet that illegal aliens voted in the election, the media respond with massive denial.

    "In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally," Trump tweeted to the barely concealed contempt of many in the media.

    Typical was the utterly dismissive headline in The Nation, the flagship publication of the progressive movement: "The President-Elect Is An Internet Troll."

    The Washington Post's "The Fix" blog site did a little better: "Donald Trump's new explanation for losing the popular vote? A Twitter-born conspiracy theory."

    There are many more, too many to put here. Most follow the same theme: Trump foolishly followed the faulty analysis of Gregg Phillips of True The Vote, an online anti-voter-fraud site and app. Phillips estimates that illegals cast three million votes in the 2016 election. He's wrong, say the media. Heck, even the liberal fact-checking site FactCheck.org says so.

    But, in fact, it's almost certain that illegals did vote — and in significant numbers. Whether it was three million or not is another question.

    While states control the voter registration process, some states are so notoriously slipshod in their controls (California, Virginia and New York — all of which have political movements to legalize voting by noncitizens — come to mind) that it would be shocking if many illegals didn't vote. Remember, a low-ball estimate says there are at least 11 million to 12 million illegals in the U.S., but that's based on faulty Census data. More likely estimates put the number at 20 million to 30 million.

    What's disappointing is that instead of at least seriously considering Trump's charge, many media reports merely parrot leftist talking points and anti-Trump rhetoric by pushing the idea that Republicans and others not of the progressive left who seek to limit voting to citizens only are racist, xenophobic nuts.

    But there is evidence to back Trump's claims. A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high.

    "We find that some noncitizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and congressional elections," wrote Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University.

    More specifically, they write, "Noncitizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress."

    Specifically, the authors say that illegals may have cast as many as 2.8 million votes in 2008 and 2010. That's a lot of votes. And when you consider the population of illegal inhabitants has only grown since then, it's not unreasonable to suppose that their vote has, too.

    Critics note that a Harvard team in 2015 had responded to the study, calling it "biased." But that report included this gem: "Further, the likely percent of noncitizen voters in recent U.S. elections is 0."

    Really? That's simply preposterous, frankly, as anyone who has lived in California can attest. Leftist get-out-the-vote groups openly urge noncitizens to vote during election time, and the registration process is notoriously loose. To suggest there is no illegal voting at all is absurd.

    What's appalling, as we said, is not the media's skepticism, but its denial. But why? Illegal votes shouldn't be allowed to sway U.S. elections. So why tolerate them?

    When the far left began insinuating that the Russians had hacked the election, the media treated the nonsupported claims with the utmost of respect. They still do. But not Trump's suggestion that illegals voted, and in large numbers, mainly for Democratic candidates, including Hillary Clinton.

    And, yes, Trump is right: Illegal votes may in part explain why Hillary now has a nearly two-million-vote lead in the popular vote, even though she lost convincingly in the Electoral College. A Rasmussen Reports poll earlier this year found that 53% of the Democratic Party supports letting illegals vote, even though it's against the law. It's pretty clear why.

    Yes, there is room for skepticism of any claim that's made. But every vote cast by someone who isn't by law permitted to vote disenfranchises American citizens. The charge should at least be taken seriously.

    Meanwhile, we will expect the media to continue to give its fawning attention to the spurious challenges of nonexistent vote tampering leveled by Hillary Clinton and Jill Stein, on behalf of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.

    While the media savage Trump and his motives, please recall what Hillary said in the debates: that the idea a defeated candidate wouldn't recognize the results of the election was "horrifying." And she has also agreed there is no "actionable evidence" of either hacking or outside interference, despite joining with Stein to seek recounts.

    So what about Clinton's motives?

    As for Stein, who barely registered a blip on the 2016 electoral screen, the $5 million or so she has raised to pay for recounts really seems more like a ploy to bail out her failed campaign than a serious attempt at a recount. But the media continue to treat her like a serious political operator — not the far-left kook she is.
  2. 12 Aug '17 13:00
    It is not surprising to me that most democrats think illegals should vote

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/may_2015/most_democrats_think_illegal_immigrants_should_vote

    Over half support this illegal voting. To them, the laws are unjust, outdated, and should be either ignored or changed.
  3. 12 Aug '17 14:14 / 1 edit
    To get a Social Security card you can't use a birth certificate anymore. All you need is a driver's license and answer question you swear you are being truthful about.
  4. 12 Aug '17 14:47
    Do you have any evidence of illegals voting to offer aside from the author's gut feeling, whodey?
  5. 12 Aug '17 15:15
    Originally posted by @eladar
    To get a Social Security card you can't use a birth certificate anymore. All you need is a driver's license and answer question you swear you are being truthful about.
    But there is evidence to back Trump's claims. A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high.
  6. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    12 Aug '17 15:28
    Originally posted by @whodey
    It is not surprising to me that most democrats think illegals should vote

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/may_2015/most_democrats_think_illegal_immigrants_should_vote

    Over half support this illegal voting. To them, the laws are unjust, outdated, and should be either ignored or changed.
    Not to mention it would insure Dim victories.
  7. 12 Aug '17 15:41
    Originally posted by @checkbaiter
    Not to mention it would insure Dim victories.
    After the last election, it is obvious they despise democracy, unless it gives them what they desire.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    12 Aug '17 15:57
    Originally posted by @whodey
    But there is evidence to back Trump's claims. A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high.
    Here's an article by an author who wrote a piece in the same journal demolishing those claims: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/donald-trump-illegal-votes-evidence-debunked-214487

    Excerpt: The biggest source of error with the Richman study was its use of one of the survey questions to identify “non-citizens.” Survey respondents occasionally select the wrong response by accident—perhaps because they are rushing through and not reading the questions carefully, because they do not fully understand the terminology being used, or because they simply click on the wrong box on the page. Such errors are infrequent, but they happen in any survey. In this case, they were crucial, because Richman and his colleagues saw the very small number of people who answered that they were “immigrant non-citizens,” and extrapolated that (inaccurate) number to the U.S. population as a whole.

    How do we know that some people give an inaccurate response to this question? Well, we actually took 19,000 respondents from one of the surveys that Richman used (the 2010 study) and we interviewed them again in 2012. A total of 121 of the 19,000 respondents (.64 percent) identified themselves as immigrant non-citizens when they first answered the survey in 2010. However, when asked the question again in 2012, 36 of the 121 selected a different response, indicating that they were citizens. Even more telling was this: 20 respondents identified themselves as citizens in 2010 but then in 2012 changed their answers to indicate that they were non-citizens. It is highly unrealistic to go from being a citizen in 2010 to a non-citizen in 2012, which provides even stronger evidence that some people were providing incorrect responses to this question for idiosyncratic reasons.

    Since Richman was trying to extrapolate from a very small fraction of respondents to the survey, even these very small amounts of measurement error could cause major problems for his analysis. To get a more valid estimate of non-citizen voting, we can look at the 85 respondents who said that they were non-citizens in both waves of the survey. Since this group answered the question the same way twice, we can be much more confident that they really are non-citizens. Among these 85 respondents, zero were matched to a valid vote record in 2010. That is, all of the non-citizen voters that Richman reports in his study for the 2010 election disappear once we account for measurement error.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    12 Aug '17 16:23
    Here's a bit more scholarly explanation of why the Richman study is flawed: https://cces.gov.harvard.edu/news/perils-cherry-picking-low-frequency-events-large-sample-surveys
  10. 12 Aug '17 16:38
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Here's an article by an author who wrote a piece in the same journal demolishing those claims: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/donald-trump-illegal-votes-evidence-debunked-214487

    Excerpt: The biggest source of error with the Richman study was its use of one of the survey questions to identify “non-citizens.” Survey respondents occasion ...[text shortened]... hman reports in his study for the 2010 election disappear once we account for measurement error.
    Alright, so the study either proved that illegals vote or it proved that the public education system is a failure

    You be the judge.
  11. 12 Aug '17 17:30
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Alright, so the study either proved that illegals vote or it proved that the public education system is a failure

    You be the judge.
    It proves neither, but it is clear that public education has failed in your case.
  12. 12 Aug '17 18:00
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    It proves neither, but it is clear that public education has failed in your case.
    God help us all!

    The state failed at something!
  13. 12 Aug '17 20:16
    Here is a guy who got sent to jail for registering dead Dim voters.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/10/college-student-gets-100-days-in-slammer-for-registering-dead-voters-for-dems.html

    Weird, I was told this never happens either.
  14. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    13 Aug '17 15:42
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-is-right-millions-of-illegals-probably-did-vote-in-2016/

    Media Bias: Not surprisingly, the media take seriously and support Jill Stein's and Hillary Clinton's excellent vote-recount adventure, despite there being no indication a recount is needed. Heck, even President Obama agrees — Donald Trump won, peri ...[text shortened]... he media continue to treat her like a serious political operator — not the far-left kook she is.
    You seriously need to stop sucking up that FoxNews kool-aid.

    Besides that, this is an OLD preposterous story with no basis in fact. The bigger story is how the Republicans got election officials in several key states to yank non-white voters off the voter rolls so that they were simply denied their Constitutional right to vote.
  15. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    13 Aug '17 17:07
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-is-right-millions-of-illegals-probably-did-vote-in-2016/

    Media Bias: Not surprisingly, the media take seriously and support Jill Stein's and Hillary Clinton's excellent vote-recount adventure, despite there being no indication a recount is needed. Heck, even President Obama agrees — Donald Trump won, peri ...[text shortened]... he media continue to treat her like a serious political operator — not the far-left kook she is.
    "In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally," Trump tweeted to the barely concealed contempt of many in the media.


    Dear Whodey - The Secretary's of State of every state (many of them Republicans) have said Trump's claims of million's of illegals voting is simply not true, state voting results are carefully overseen by both Republicans and Democrats. This silly idea is no different than Trump's obsession with crowd size at his inauguration. I know it's fun to find conspiracy's around every corner, but maybe you and Trump should check out last months National Enquirer story about the dwarf ants that are invading Las Vegas, Officials Fear The Worst!