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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    02 Apr '18 09:201 edit
    YouTube

    It's John Oliver so of course many of you will dismiss it on principle because why deal with facts if they are delivered by someone you don't like.

    For the rest, here are some of the highlights:
    - Some immigrants would suffer severe harm if they are sent back to their country so, in the words of many judges, "We judge death penalty cases in what is basically traffic court setting.
    -The wait time for most hearings is 3 years or more which means witnesses that can help you may disappear or die and evidence may become stale
    - In immigration courts, the federal government is not required to provide a lawyer if you cannot afford one. This leads to ludicrous cases where children as young as 2 (!) year old appear in front of the judge without a lawyer. This hasn't stopped an assistant chief immigration judge to argue that he can totally teach immigration law to 3 year olds which of course has sparked a series of hilarious videos of a lawyer trying to teach law to 3 year olds.

    Whatever you feel about John Oliver, whatever you feel about immigration in general, these are real problems that must be addressed. Since it doesn't affect citizens with voting privileges, i doubt it will ever be. Who cares human beings may be sent to a country they fled under fear of death after a hearing lasting less than 2 minutes? There are no repercussions for the politicians to ignore this problem and not enough americans give a crap about it.
  2. Standard membershavixmir
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    03 Apr '18 03:39
    The more you learn, the more the US must be on the brink of total implosion.
  3. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    03 Apr '18 05:01
    I will say this the next time I have an issue with "sources" or something, lol:

    "It's Breitbart so of course many of you will dismiss it on principle because why deal with facts if they are delivered by someone you don't like.
  4. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    03 Apr '18 05:24
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    For the rest, here are some of the highlights:
    - Some immigrants would suffer severe harm if they are sent back to their country so, in the words of many judges, "We judge death penalty cases in what is basically traffic court setting.
    -The wait time for most hearings is 3 years or more which means witnesses that can help you may disappear or die and evide ...[text shortened]... course has sparked a series of hilarious videos of a lawyer trying to teach law to 3 year olds. [/b]
    It is true that in exceedingly rare cases there are issues of whether or not a person will be executed if sent back to their home country. I believe in those cases Amnesty International and other rights organizations are quick to represent the defendant. But, you are claiming that some of these cases are tried liek a traffic violation.

    Would you like to provide us proof of that?

    You say important witnesses can disappear or die... What sort of important witness? Immigration depends on proving legitimate visa statuses or residence. These are meticulously documented. What is an example of something a witness could do?

    And if a 2 year old has no lawyer... just like in traffic court, how is that relevant when obvious case is obvious?

    Do you expect a two year old or a five year old who has zero documentation and zero chance of attaining a legal right to live in the US needs to have a several week trial with a lawyer?

    ... Imagine trying to do that while simultaneously complaining that, as it is, the wait for immigration court takes too long.

    What do you propose, exactly?

    I think it could be simplified: hold any illegal immigrant and give them three weeks (extendable if there is a valid reason) to prove legal residence or citizenship and, upon failure, they can get a simple letter tha tsends them on their way and we can put their name in a system that gives them a permanent blacklisting from the country. If they come back in a second time, we can also reserve to punish them and confiscate all of their property in the US.
  5. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 12:48
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    The more you learn, the more the US must be on the brink of total implosion.
    this isn't a sign the US is collapsing. this is just an example of complete asholery. an example of apathy that allows this asholery to continue. a lack of empathy from the people that can fix it because it doesn't affect them.

    exaggeration is fun. it is even useful to prove a point sometimes. here, it doesn't do anything.
  6. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 12:55
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    I will say this the next time I have an issue with "sources" or something, lol:

    "It's Breitbart so of course many of you will dismiss it on principle because why deal with facts if they are delivered by someone you don't like.
    breitbart is an alt-right (aka nazi) site, proven countless time to do deliberately bad "journalism" with the clear intent of misinforming the ignorant and weak and trigger a fear reaction. it doesn't offer facts, it doesn't offer solutions, it just points at a group of people and says: there! there are the ones to blame for your problems, not matter what they are.

    reading breitbart makes you objectively a bad person.


    john oliver researches a subject and presents facts and at most anyone has ever managed to do in several years since he done his show is to point a few minor points on which he was inconsistent or drew conclusions that some experts disagreed with.

    they are not the same, at the very least until you manage to prove he intentionally misleads the public by omitting facts or inventing facts.
  7. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 13:04
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fB0GBwJ2QA

    It's John Oliver so of course many of you will dismiss it on principle because why deal with facts if they are delivered by someone you don't like.

    For the rest, here are some of the highlights:
    - Some immigrants would suffer severe harm if they are sent back to their country so, in the words of many judg ...[text shortened]... ssions for the politicians to ignore this problem and not enough americans give a crap about it.
    you foolishly assume the US is the keeper of the world. While we have the most liberal immigration policies of any country, there comes a time when enough is enough.
  8. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 13:08
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    It is true that in exceedingly rare cases there are issues of whether or not a person will be executed if sent back to their home country. I believe in those cases Amnesty International and other rights organizations are quick to represent the defendant. But, you are claiming that some of these cases are tried liek a traffic violation.

    Would you like ...[text shortened]... second time, we can also reserve to punish them and confiscate all of their property in the US.
    you made 0 effort to watch the video and are just talking out of your ass. Oh well, why should that have changed

    " you are claiming that some of these cases are tried liek a traffic violation.
    Would you like to provide us proof of that?"
    i just did. In civil courts the defendant is not given a lawyer if he can't afford one.

    "You say important witnesses can disappear or die... What sort of important witness? "
    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/bringing-witnesses-immigration-court.html
    witnesses that can indeed testify you are going to be killed or suffer significant harm if sent back
    witnesses that can testify to your caracter
    witnesses that can back your claims.

    "These are meticulously documented."
    when the backlog is 5 years in Chicago and 3 years in California, it is anything but.

    "Do you expect a two year old or a five year old who has zero documentation and zero chance of attaining a legal right to live in the US needs to have a several week trial with a lawyer? "
    The trial is where it is decided if someone has "0 chance" or not. YOU don't decide jack. Anyone who enters a trial should have a lawyer to inform the defendant on the law.


    "... Imagine trying to do that while simultaneously complaining that, as it is, the wait for immigration court takes too long. "
    The point is to do it right. Not to make hasty decisions on another human being's life to speed up the process. If there is a long line at the dentist i doubt you would agree each patient needs to just have their teeth removed rather than doing a lengthy root canal procedure
  9. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 13:10
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    you foolishly assume the US is the keeper of the world. While we have the most liberal immigration policies of any country, there comes a time when enough is enough.
    this is about YOUR legal system, you gigantic douche. A flawed system because, at the very least, of the simple facts i just mentioned. Issues that would be unacceptable if they affected you. Since, however , they affect immigrants, they can just suk it
  10. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 13:19
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    this is about YOUR legal system, you gigantic douche. A flawed system because, at the very least, of the simple facts i just mentioned. Issues that would be unacceptable if they affected you. Since, however , they affect immigrants, they can just suk it
    this is about corrupt politicians abusing our legal system. Over 600,000 cases behind? slow rolled on purpose. Trump is only getting their ass in gear
    to speed things up.
  11. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    03 Apr '18 13:43
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    this is about YOUR legal system, you gigantic douche. A flawed system because, at the very least, of the simple facts i just mentioned. Issues that would be unacceptable if they affected you. Since, however , they affect immigrants, they can just suk it
    Wow! Your potty mouth continues to reflect poorly upon the many thoughtful and intelligent liberals on this site.
  12. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 13:46
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    this is about corrupt politicians abusing our legal system. Over 600,000 cases behind? slow rolled on purpose. Drumpf is only getting their ass in gear
    to speed things up.
    ?
    nonsensical word soup is nonsensical.
  13. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 15:34
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    ?
    nonsensical word soup is nonsensical.
    Your changing of my quote only goes to show you are a dishonest person. Can you really not stand on your own?
  14. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 16:351 edit
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    Your changing of my quote only goes to show you are a dishonest person. Can you really not stand on your own?
    quoted exactly how it was posted. as it can be seen if you just scroll up a bit. it's not a surprise that you lie without shame, that you lack the intelligence to make your lies subtle enough to require at least some effort to disprove.

    but to vomit a lie that can be disproved by scrolling up on the same page and comparing 2 sentences? that's stupid AND lazy. funny though.
  15. Joined
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    03 Apr '18 17:53
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    you foolishly assume the US is the keeper of the world. While we have the most liberal immigration policies of any country
    And the wisest gun policy, and the least racism, the leanest people, the least conspiracy nuts, the president with the best hairpiece...
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