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  1. 12 Aug '10 16:40
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/233515/immigration-myths-mark-krikorian
  2. 12 Aug '10 16:40
    so the 'last two heads of INS' are on the other side?
  3. 12 Aug '10 20:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/233515/immigration-myths-mark-krikorian
    Immigration Myths
    July 22, 2010 5:57 PM
    By Mark Krikorian

    There’s too much wrong-headed commentary about immigration to bother with most of it, but the op-ed in Thursday’s Washington Post by the last two heads of the INS is worth comment, both because of the venue and the particular myths its authors purvey.

    ...

    But it’s the second half of the piece that includes two dubious claims that underlie much of the debate over illegal immigration. First this:

    The most important fact driving the Arizona action is a question: Why are an estimated 11 million people in this country illegally? . . . The simple answer is that our immigration laws provide inadequate legal avenues to enter the United States for employment purposes at levels that our economy demands.


    Well, I don’t doubt that’s the simple answer at the Migration Policy Institute, the high-immigration think tank where both Meissner and Ziglar are fellows. But the correct answer to why 11 million people came here illegally is that they can get away with it. It’s simply foolish to imagine that at any given time there’s a fixed demand for foreign labor, which would come here legally if only we’d permit it, thus eliminating virtually all illegal immigration. If we were to double or triple legal immigration tomorrow, within a couple of years (if that) the demand would again outstrip supply and open-borders people would again bemoan our “inadequate legal avenues” for the admission of peasant labor from abroad.

    The second myth:

    Tightening border controls, while essential, has exacerbated the problem. Today, our borders are more secure than ever — so those here illegally stay because re-entry is perilous.

    The open-borders folks delight in making this point: Border controls increase illegal immigration! You obscurantist gun-clingers are making the problem worse! Here’s how I described it in congressional testimony a few years back:

    The story line goes like this: Illegal aliens — Mexican illegals, in particular — had been happily coming and going across the border since time immemorial, never even entertaining the idea of remaining permanently in the United States. “Circular migration” is how such a process is described by scholars. Then, increased border enforcement — the additional agents and fencing authorized by Congress in 1996, as well as new tactics already being implemented by the Border Patrol — made it more difficult and expensive to cross the border, interrupting the “circularity” of the flow by forcing illegals to stay here, so they wouldn’t get caught up in the dragnet the next time they left and tried to return. In other words, the claim is that border enforcement causes illegal immigration.


    But the data show no such thing. Noted Princeton sociologist Doug Massey is the originator of this line of argument, which he has spread quite widely (including for the Cato Institute, which is ironic since Massey is also author of Return of the “L” Word: A Liberal Vision for the New Century). But Massey’s findings simply don’t support his conclusions. Here is his testimony from the same congressional hearing, and Figure 7 on p. 20 is the foundation of this idea that enforcement is causing increased permanent illegal settlement by interrupting back-and-forth migration.

    ...
  4. 12 Aug '10 20:58 / 1 edit
    who needs these convoluted myths anyway -- the reason we have all these illegals is very simple:

    They're willing to do all sorts of important but extremely unpleasant jobs and to do them for very low pay. And they make great scapegoats to blame all our problems on when the economy gets bad.

    So why would anyone (except perhaps some who live within 30 miles of the border) want to put a stop to this lucrative gravy train?
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Aug '10 21:25
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    who needs these convoluted myths anyway -- the reason we have all these illegals is very simple:

    They're willing to do all sorts of important but extremely unpleasant jobs and to do them for very low pay. And they make great scapegoats to blame all our problems on when the economy gets bad.

    So why would anyone (except perhaps some who live within 30 miles of the border) want to put a stop to this lucrative gravy train?
    The one who needs money and is willing to do the unpleasant job for a reasonable salary but finds:

    1) There are fewer jobs available because of the illegal immigrants; and

    2) The jobs that are available pay very little because of illegal immigrants who set the market

    may want to put a stop to the lucrative gravy train.
  6. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    12 Aug '10 21:26
    Originally posted by sh76
    The one who needs money and is willing to do the unpleasant job for a reasonable salary but finds:

    1) There are fewer jobs available because of the illegal immigrants; and

    2) The jobs that are available pay very little because of illegal immigrants who set the market

    may want to put a stop to the lucrative gravy train.
    http://immigration.change.org/blog/view/stephen_colbert_and_immigrant_farm_workers_challenge_take_our_jobs
  7. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    12 Aug '10 21:31
    Originally posted by sh76
    The one who needs money and is willing to do the unpleasant job for a reasonable salary but finds:

    1) There are fewer jobs available because of the illegal immigrants; and

    2) The jobs that are available pay very little because of illegal immigrants who set the market

    may want to put a stop to the lucrative gravy train.
    A large pool of illegal immigrants lowers wages, lowers tax revenues, and raises the burden on public services that cannot be constructed for them because "they don't exist."

    Illegals should be sent home. Laws designed to catch illegal immigrants are in the public interest, and we can accept being 'asked for our papers' if the result is more deportations of illegals.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    12 Aug '10 21:37
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    A large pool of illegal immigrants lowers wages, lowers tax revenues, and raises the burden on public services that cannot be constructed for them because "they don't exist."

    Illegals should be sent home. Laws designed to catch illegal immigrants are in the public interest, and we can accept being 'asked for our papers' if the result is more deportations of illegals.
    http://www.localyokelshop.com/prod_images_blowup/BorderSecurityNaturalZoom1.jpg

    http://www.zazzle.com/native_american_fighting_terrorism_since_1492_tshirt-235396445533821841
  9. 12 Aug '10 21:42
    Originally posted by sh76
    The one who needs money and is willing to do the unpleasant job for a reasonable salary but finds:

    1) There are fewer jobs available because of the illegal immigrants; and

    2) The jobs that are available pay very little because of illegal immigrants who set the market

    may want to put a stop to the lucrative gravy train.
    yes -- but these blue-collar sorts don't have much free speech to donate to campaign treasuries.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Aug '10 21:49
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    yes -- but these blue-collar sorts don't have much free speech to donate to campaign treasuries.
    no; but they vote
  11. 12 Aug '10 21:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    no; but they vote
    they also view campaign ads --- easy enough to create an ad showing the candidate standing next to a fence with a sheriff declaring their intention to REALLY crack down -- and then do nothing about it because it would offend donors that employ cheap immigrant labor.
  12. 13 Aug '10 01:37
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    A large pool of illegal immigrants lowers wages, lowers tax revenues, and raises the burden on public services that cannot be constructed for them because "they don't exist."

    Illegals should be sent home. Laws designed to catch illegal immigrants are in the public interest, and we can accept being 'asked for our papers' if the result is more deportations of illegals.
    You must grow your own food.
  13. 13 Aug '10 01:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    A large pool of illegal immigrants lowers wages, lowers tax revenues, and raises the burden on public services that cannot be constructed for them because "they don't exist."

    Illegals should be sent home. Laws designed to catch illegal immigrants are in the public interest, and we can accept being 'asked for our papers' if the result is more deportations of illegals.
    If the laws allowed a fair guest worker plan you wouldn't have these problems.

    Then you see more competitive wages, they would pay taxes (incidently, the vast majority of the undocumented workers DO pay taxes, not that many just work for cash), and your last point - we just really disagree.
  14. 13 Aug '10 02:21
    Originally posted by badmoon
    If the laws allowed a fair guest worker plan you wouldn't have these problems.

    Then you see more competitive wages, they would pay taxes (incidently, the vast majority of the undocumented workers DO pay taxes, not that many just work for cash), and your last point - we just really disagree.
    are not these laws already in place Badmoon? what do you call fair?
  15. 13 Aug '10 02:28
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    who needs these convoluted myths anyway -- the reason we have all these illegals is very simple:

    They're willing to do all sorts of important but extremely unpleasant jobs and to do them for very low pay. And they make great scapegoats to blame all our problems on when the economy gets bad.

    So why would anyone (except perhaps some who live within 30 miles of the border) want to put a stop to this lucrative gravy train?
    "They're willing to do all sorts of important but extremely unpleasant jobs and to do them for very low pay. And they make great scapegoats to blame all our problems on when the economy gets bad." Melanerpes

    This is the biggest myth of all! Americans are not willing to land scape? Do masonry,carpentry,asphalt and steel work? All hogwash!