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  1. Standard membervivify
    rain
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    04 Aug '15 14:56
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/Indian-students-rank-2nd-last-in-global-test/articleshow/11492508.cms

    This comes as a surprise to me. I always thought they were on par with China. From the article:

    MUMBAI: Across the world, India is seen as an education powerhouse — based largely on the reputation of a few islands of academic excellence such as the IITs. But scratch the glossy surface of our education system and the picture turns seriously bleak.

    Fifteen-year-old Indians who were put, for the first time, on a global stage stood second to last, only beating Kyrgyzstan when tested on their reading, math and science abilities.

    India ranked second last among the 73 countries that participated in the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), conducted annually to evaluate education systems worldwide by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) Secretariat. The survey is based on two-hour tests that half a million students are put through.
  2. Joined
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    04 Aug '15 17:12
    Originally posted by vivify
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/Indian-students-rank-2nd-last-in-global-test/articleshow/11492508.cms

    This comes as a surprise to me. I always thought they were on par with China. From the article:

    MUMBAI: Across the world, India is seen as an education powerhouse — based largely on the reputation of a few islands of acad ...[text shortened]... t. The survey is based on two-hour tests that half a million students are put through.
    Goodness, Gracious me .
  3. The Catbird's Seat
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    04 Aug '15 17:15
    Originally posted by vivify
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/Indian-students-rank-2nd-last-in-global-test/articleshow/11492508.cms

    This comes as a surprise to me. I always thought they were on par with China. From the article:

    MUMBAI: Across the world, India is seen as an education powerhouse — based largely on the reputation of a few islands of acad ...[text shortened]... t. The survey is based on two-hour tests that half a million students are put through.
    It depends on what caste you are in.
  4. Standard memberSleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    Dustbin of history
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    04 Aug '15 18:15
    Originally posted by vivify
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/Indian-students-rank-2nd-last-in-global-test/articleshow/11492508.cms

    This comes as a surprise to me. I always thought they were on par with China. From the article:

    MUMBAI: Across the world, India is seen as an education powerhouse — based largely on the reputation of a few islands of acad ...[text shortened]... t. The survey is based on two-hour tests that half a million students are put through.
    Holy Cow.
  5. The Catbird's Seat
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    04 Aug '15 20:54
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Holy Cow.
    🙄Did you really say that?😲 LOL
  6. Joined
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    04 Aug '15 21:37
    DId they adopt Common Core or something?
  7. Zugzwang
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    04 Aug '15 22:111 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/Indian-students-rank-2nd-last-in-global-test/articleshow/11492508.cms

    This comes as a surprise to me. I always thought they were on par with China. From the article:

    MUMBAI: Across the world, India is seen as an education powerhouse — based largely on the reputation of a few islands of acad ...[text shortened]... t. The survey is based on two-hour tests that half a million students are put through.
    "I always thought they (India in educational achievements) were on par with China."
    --Vivify

    That may be because Vivify ignorantly accepts the biases of the mainstream US media.
    The US media has long had a Sinophobic bias, preferring to ignore or dismiss many
    Chinese achievements. To this day, many, perhaps most, Americans seem to presume
    that even the best Chinese scientists and engineers are hopelessly inferior and cannot
    do better than 'steal' Western technology and make crude copies of Western designs.

    On the other hand, the US media tends to accept--without asking critical questions--the
    typically exaggerated claims by Indian nationalists. There's an alliance between these
    Indian nationalists and right-wing Americans in promoting India as an emerging capitalist
    paradise. This dominant narrative ignores India's many deep difficulties and divisions.
    In particular, the voices of India's critics (e.g. Arundhati Roy) of India's rampant capitalism
    and nationalism tend to be excluded from the mainstream US media.

    I have no objection to betting with an ignorant American about whether the team from
    China or from India is more likely to win the next International Mathematical Olympiad.
  8. Standard membervivify
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    04 Aug '15 23:282 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "I always thought they (India in educational achievements) were on par with China."
    --Vivify

    That may be because Vivify ignorantly accepts the biases of the mainstream US media.
    The US media has long had a Sinophobic bias, preferring to ignore or dismiss many
    Chinese achievements. To this day, many, perhaps most, Americans seem to presume
    that eve ...[text shortened]... am from
    China or from India is more likely to win the next International Mathematical Olympiad.
    This is one of the most ignorant posts Duchess64 has ever made. Many Americans believe the Chinese are vastly superior in terms of academics and technological ingenuity to the point where it's a stereotype that the Chinese are superior.
  9. Joined
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    04 Aug '15 23:40
    Originally posted by vivify
    This is one of the most ignorant posts Duchess64 has ever made. Many Americans believe the Chinese are vastly superior in terms of academics and technological ingenuity to the point where it's a stereotype that the Chinese are superior.
    Do you know the Asian grade scale?

    "A" average
    "B" Bad
    "C" catastrophic
    "D" Damned to hell
    "F" Forgotten forever
  10. Zugzwang
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    04 Aug '15 23:554 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    This is one of the most ignorant posts Duchess64 has ever made.
    Many Americans believe the Chinese are vastly superior in terms of academics and
    technological ingenuity to the point where it's a stereotype that the Chinese are superior.
    Vivify spews more nonsense. And, in the interest of clarity, I never claimed that *all* Americans
    are biased against Chinese achievements; I do claim that *many* Americans are biased.
    Vivify also seems ignorant of the long history of anti-Chinese racism in the United States.

    Does Vivify claim that most Americans regard the 'Made in China' label on an electronics
    product as evidence of 'vast superiority' in technology over a 'Made in the USA" product?
    Does Vivify dismiss the popular American stereotype that Chinese products are only
    cheaper inferior copies of Western (or Japanese) products?

    Vivify seems ignorant of the long ample US media coverage of real or imagined Chinese
    espionage against the USA, supposedly aiming to 'steal' American technological secrets
    because the Chinese allegedly are incapable of developing the same technology on their own.

    I lack the time and space here to review decades of American concern (often hysteria)
    about 'the Chinese stealing American secrets'. In brief, I shall note that Qian Xuesen
    (whom Theodore von Karman called a 'genius' ) was wrongly accused of stealing plans
    for the Titan missile (whose development began after he was deported to China).
    Wen Ho Lee (who was born in Taiwan) was wrongly accused of spying for China (he was
    guilty of a technical violation of security); a conservative US federal judge apologized to
    him for how he had been mistreated by the US government. There are many other less
    famous cases of real or alleged Chinese espionage against American technology.

    And if Vivify would read some right-wing American news sources, he should be able to
    find even more alarm (or hysteria) about the Chinese aiming to 'steal American secrets'
    because they allegedly are incapable of developing the same technology on their own.
  11. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    05 Aug '15 04:45
    PISA is a nonsense.
    Schools volunteer to take part.
    The Heads chose which class takes part.
    The teacher chooses which pupils.
  12. Cape Town
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    05 Aug '15 08:43
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    PISA is a nonsense.
    Schools volunteer to take part.
    The Heads chose which class takes part.
    The teacher chooses which pupils.
    Here in SA we keep getting stories about how bad our mathematics education is, then it turns out the scoring is based on the opinion of business leaders:
    http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/124024-south-african-mathematics-science-education-ranked-worst-in-the-world.html

    So essentially, our business leaders in SA are pessimists and probably anti-government and racist too.
  13. Standard memberCalJust
    It is what it is
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    07 Aug '15 11:15
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Here in SA we keep getting stories about how bad our mathematics education is, then it turns out the scoring is based on the opinion of business leaders:
    http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/124024-south-african-mathematics-science-education-ranked-worst-in-the-world.html

    So essentially, our business leaders in SA are pessimists and probably anti-government and racist too.
    Yes, the opinions of business leaders (on education) is based on the quality of the school leavers they get to hire.

    And yes, the business leaders are pessimistic and anti-government because the government is anti- business and pro-unions and Communist (The minister of Tertiary Education is the leader of the SA Communist Party),

    And yes, anybody who criticizes the government in SA is a racist.

    And the last time twitehead and I had a similar discussion here, I was told who cares about South Africa anyway?!
  14. Cape Town
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    07 Aug '15 11:591 edit
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Yes, the opinions of business leaders (on education) is based on the quality of the school leavers they get to hire.
    In some cases, maybe, but I very much doubt that that is true of all business leaders.

    And yes, the business leaders are pessimistic and anti-government because the government is anti- business and pro-unions and Communist (The minister of Tertiary Education is the leader of the SA Communist Party),
    I very much doubt that that is the main reason for business leaders pessimism about education. I sure hope it isn't your own reason for pessimism about education.

    And yes, anybody who criticizes the government in SA is a racist.
    Now you are being insulting. I never said nor implied nor thought any such thing.

    And the last time twitehead and I had a similar discussion here, I was told who cares about South Africa anyway?!
    Told by whom?

    The fact remains that interviewing business leaders and asking them to score the quality of maths education will not tell you anything useful about the comparative quality of the maths education.
    Whenever you see a claim based on surveys be sure to find out more about what the survey actually was and who and what they asked.
  15. Zugzwang
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    21 Aug '15 22:411 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Vivify spews more nonsense. And, in the interest of clarity, I never claimed that *all* Americans
    are biased against Chinese achievements; I do claim that *many* Americans are biased.
    Vivify also seems ignorant of the long history of anti-Chinese racism in the United States.

    Does Vivify claim that most Americans regard the 'Made in China' label on an ...[text shortened]... n secrets'
    because they allegedly are incapable of developing the same technology on their own.
    "...to the point where it's (an American) stereotype that the Chinese are superior (in technology)."
    --Vivify

    (As I recall, Vivify originally wrote 'vastly superior' rather than just 'superior' and then
    edited it after my response--to which Vivify had no answer--was written.)

    I already have confuted Vivify's arrogant nonsense, and Vivify apparently has run away.
    So would Vivify like to cite many examples of how Americans stereotype 'Made in China'
    products as (vastly) superior in technology to comparable 'Made in the USA' products?
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