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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 26 Oct '09 10:01 / 1 edit
    Well, who are the native English? In Australia there is a fairly clear distinction, but in the UK there is not. England was invaded by Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans among others. Are descendants of these people "native"?

    In short: no one is speaking about "native" English because it would be retarded to do so.

    Edit: and yes, for the Irish and Scottish people the same obviously applies.
  2. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    26 Oct '09 10:06
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    It's typically unacceptable when it's used as a political counter. Which is almost the only thing it's ever used for. How many people do you know who refer to themselves as 'native Englishmen'?

    Of course there's a vast difference between, say, 'native Australian' (all of them) and 'Australian aborigine' (a much smaller group).

    For me, anyone who's born in England into what passes for English culture, in all its diversity, is English. Very broad. Strong local associations can be evoked with more specific names: Yorkshireman, Mancunian, Liverpudlian, Londoner ...
  3. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    26 Oct '09 10:29 / 1 edit
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    It's not about what term is being used, it's how it's being used.
  4. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    26 Oct '09 10:39
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    'native Englishmen'?
    Would "international man of mystery" count as an euphemism or some sort of secret handshake?
  5. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    26 Oct '09 10:44 / 7 edits
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    I don't see it, CFT.

    For example, the Economist has a recent piece on poor white Britons. There is nothing negative in the connotations of white Britons, it's just a descriptive moniker. It's BNP's usage of it as a racist political tool that is offensive, in my view.

    Edit - Regarding your last post, the example of the Economist is again a counter example. I do think you're on the money with the George's cross. Its usage as a racist symbol makes people want to dissociate themselves from it. It's definitely true that it's hard to force an imagery "out" of a symbol.

    Edit 2 - To be fair, I do prefer to use "Britons" over "English" in this context. Not because of negative connotations, but because English citizens are today a very ethnically diverse group.

    Edit 3 - I can't write in English anymore.
  6. 26 Oct '09 11:36
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Well, who are the native English? In Australia there is a fairly clear distinction, but in the UK there is not. England was invaded by Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans among others. Are descendants of these people "native"?

    In short: no one is speaking about "native" English because it would be retarded to do so.

    Edit: and yes, for the Irish and Scottish people the same obviously applies.
    the native english are the english people as they were when the dust settled and the english people came into existance. the romans didn't invade england they invaded brittania and whoever there was there. then it could be mentioned the native britons and the alien romans. now the english are the natives and the muslims or whatever are the aliens.

    people cry rasism and whatever to provoke a response from the masses. when they should think about what the other dood said and keep their mouths shut.


    "In short: no one is speaking about "native" English because it would be retarded to do so."
    your opinion. i disagree.
  7. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    26 Oct '09 11:42
    Muslims? Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

    Islam is a religion, not a race. There are white-as-snow English who are "native
    English" and Muslims that doesn't make them "aliens". Does it?
  8. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    26 Oct '09 11:45
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Muslims? Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

    Islam is a religion, not a race. There are white-as-snow English who are "native
    English" and Muslims that doesn't make them "aliens". Does it?
    'Native English Muslims'. Only 3 hits on Google. Make it yours!
  9. 26 Oct '09 11:49
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Muslims? Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

    Islam is a religion, not a race. There are white-as-snow English who are "native
    English" and Muslims that doesn't make them "aliens". Does it?
    No it doesn't make them aliens but it does make them very, very weird. Western europeans who convert to Islam are out there where the busses don't run.
  10. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    26 Oct '09 11:54
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    No it doesn't make them aliens but it does make them very, very weird. Western europeans who convert to Islam are out there where the busses don't run.
    Eccentricity is a well known English trait.
  11. 26 Oct '09 12:05
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Muslims? Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

    Islam is a religion, not a race. There are white-as-snow English who are "native
    English" and Muslims that doesn't make them "aliens". Does it?
    if you would read my post you would see that i said "racism and whatever". if you would like, replace the "racism and whatever" with "negative connotations" as cat said.

    if you were talking to me. if not then meh.
  12. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    26 Oct '09 12:06
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    No it doesn't make them aliens but it does make them very, very weird. Western europeans who convert to Islam are out there where the busses don't run.
    And?
  13. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    26 Oct '09 12:31
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    No it doesn't make them aliens but it does make them very, very weird. Western europeans who convert to Islam are out there where the busses don't run.
    As far as I am aware, 'muscular' reactionary denominations and cults - from various religions - are gaining members, even as 'faith' is generally on the wane in the West. I don't really see how your number of "busses" metaphor has much to do with it. Weirdness is weirdness: there's a bit of intellectual house of cards going on if you start pitting one weirdness against another - when the root of the whole trend is the same attempted flight from the perceived (and growing) meaninglessness of Western civilization.
  14. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    26 Oct '09 12:42
    That was supposed to be a demeaning remark from Samantha, FMF, trying to
    imply that Westerners who embrace Islam are poor, uneducated... marginal.
  15. 26 Oct '09 12:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Seitse
    That was supposed to be a demeaning remark from Samantha, FMF, trying to
    imply that Westerners who embrace Islam are poor, uneducated... marginal.
    Stop putting words in my mouth Speedy. I said weird.

    Like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3ked90K85w&feature=related