1. Zugzwang
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    12 Jan '21 20:301 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/12/donald-trump-us-joe-biden

    "Is Donald Trump an aberration or a symptom of a deeper US malady?
    The underlying causes of Trump’s rise to power must be addressed,
    from taming social media to tackling inequality"
    --Joseph Stiglietz

    "The assault on the US Capitol by Donald Trump’s supporters, incited
    by the president himself, was the predictable outcome of his four-year-long
    assault on democratic institutions, aided and abetted by so many in the
    Republican party. And no one can say that Trump had not warned
    us: he was not committed to a peaceful transition of power.

    Many who benefited as he slashed taxes for corporations and the rich,
    rolled back environmental regulations and appointed business-friendly
    judges knew they were making a pact with the devil. Either they believed
    they could control the extremist forces he unleashed, or they didn’t care."

    "Trump is the product of multiple forces. For at least a quarter century, the
    Republican party has understood that it could represent the interests of
    business elites only by embracing anti-democratic measures (including
    voter suppression and gerrymandering) and allies, including the
    religious fundamentalists, white supremacists and nationalist populists."

    "This political system did one other thing: it generated a set of policies
    (sometimes referred to as neoliberalism) that delivered massive income
    and wealth gains to those at the top, but near-stagnation everywhere elsewhere.
    Soon, a country on the cutting edge of scientific progress was marked
    by declining life expectancy and increasing health disparities.

    The neoliberal promise that wealth and income gains would trickle
    down to those at the bottom was fundamentally spurious.
    As massive structural changes deindustrialised large parts of the
    country, those left behind were left to fend largely for themselves."

    "As we have repeatedly seen, Americans’ entrepreneurial spirit, combined
    with an absence of moral constraints, provides an ample supply of
    charlatans, exploiters and would-be demagogues. Trump, a mendacious,
    narcissistic sociopath, with no understanding of economics or
    appreciation of democracy, was the man of the moment."

    "We also need to decrease the influence of money in our politics:
    no system of checks and balances can be effective in a society with
    as much inequality as the US. And any system based on “one dollar, one vote”
    rather than “one person, one vote” will be vulnerable to populist demagogy."

    "As I have repeatedly argued, small tweaks to the system won’t be
    enough to make large inroads in the country’s ingrained inequalities."

    I predict that President Biden will attempt no more than some
    'small tweaks to the system', thus setting the stage again for
    another politician like Trump, only less stupid.
  2. Standard membermchill
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    12 Jan '21 21:471 edit
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/12/donald-trump-us-joe-biden

    "Is Donald Trump an aberration or a symptom of a deeper US malady?
    The underlying causes of Trump’s rise to power must be addressed,
    from taming social media to tackling inequality"
    --Joseph Stiglietz

    "The assault on the US Capitol by Donald Trump’s supporters, incited
    by the president h ...[text shortened]... to the system', thus setting the stage again for
    another politician like Trump, only less stupid.
    Trump is a symptom of something deeper. He would have never been elected in a well educated, well functioning nation. Trump supporters aren't big on research and deep thought. If one scratches the surface, they would find a failed businessman, who demonstrated his cowardice when called to serve his country in active duty military, squandered hundreds of millions in failed business ventures, and been found guilty of fraud on more than one occasion. Trump supporters fell for a racist, sexist snake oil salesman in an expensive suit, and can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong.
  3. Zugzwang
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    12 Jan '21 22:09
    @mchill said
    Trump is a symptom of something deeper. He would have never been elected in a well educated, well functioning nation. Trump supporters aren't big on research and deep thought. If one scratches the surface, they would find a failed businessman, who demonstrated his cowardice when called to serve his country in active duty military, squandered hundreds of millions in failed busi ...[text shortened]... sexist snake oil salesman in an expensive suit, and can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong.
    "Trump supporters fell for a racist, sexist snake oil salesman in an expensive suit,
    and can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong."
    --Mchill

    I know someone like that, a retired self-described 'liberal' white American lawyer.
    He's not very rich (though he owns a house and a condo in Hawaii).
    He's not an evangelical Christian or religious at all.
    He's not even a Republican Party member, though he hates the Democrats.
    But he cannot tolerate any criticism (even by his children) of Donald Trump.

    Since 2016, he has obstinately defended Donald Trump in every imaginable way.
    He's addicted to right-wing talk radio (his favorite source) and loathes 'fake' news media.
    He claims that there's no evidence that Trump has ever lied or ever said anything racist in his life.
    He has said that Trump is a great leader, clearly the most intelligent President ever,
    a profound thinker who's misunderstood by much less intelligent biased journalists.
    He seems to believe Trump's boasts about being a universal genius.

    When I asked about Trump's comment that there were 'many fine people on both sides',
    he said that Trump was absolutely right. There are many fine people dedicated to
    keeping statues of CSA leaders in prominent public places. He said that Trump has
    done far more than every Democratic President (including Obama) to fight racism.

    He believes that Trump has handled Covid-19 'almost perfectly', except that he
    was a bit too late in barring Chinese from entering the USA. He believes that the
    USA's doing very well with Covid-19, and that the 'fake' media lies and greatly
    exaggerates deaths just to make Trump look bad. He's not sure about how many
    Americans have 'really' died, perhaps a few thousand at most (fewer than in China).
    He believes that most Americans are far overreacting to Covid-19, which is trivial.
    He said that Trump deserves consideration for a Nobel Prize in medicine!

    I don't know if he believes that Trump 'really' won the 2020 election, but I expect
    that he believes that Trump did nothing wrong concerning the storming of the Capitol.
    He has said that having Biden as President will be one of the worst tragedies in US history.
    So I suspect that he wishes that Trump could be President for four more years, if not for life.

    I believe that he would prefer to see President Trump keep ruining the USA rather
    than ever concede that he was wrong.
  4. Joined
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    14 Jan '21 08:58
    @mchill said
    Trump is a symptom of something deeper.
    That's only half the truth. He and his libertarian cronies are also one of the major causes behind the deeper problems. He didn't jump on someone else's bandwagon - he built part of it, pushed it along, and only then jumped on.
  5. Standard memberFerdyred
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    14 Jan '21 10:17
    @Duchess64
    Magister dixit.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Jan '21 11:54
    @duchess64 said
    "Trump supporters fell for a racist, sexist snake oil salesman in an expensive suit,
    and can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong."
    --Mchill

    I know someone like that, a retired self-described 'liberal' white American lawyer.
    He's not very rich (though he owns a house and a condo in Hawaii).
    He's not an evangelical Christian or religious at all.
    He's not eve ...[text shortened]... ould prefer to see President Trump keep ruining the USA rather
    than ever concede that he was wrong.
    And there are many in our own Debates Forum exactly like him.
  7. Zugzwang
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    14 Jan '21 12:241 edit
    @suzianne said
    And there are many in our own Debates Forum exactly like him.
    Not 'exactly like him'. He admires Noam Chomsky and is more critical of
    US imperialism and militarism than probably most 'liberal' Americans here are.
    He agrees with my condemnations of Israel as a racist apartheid state.
    He has said that he likely would emigrate to Europe if he could.

    I would like to amend something that I wrote earlier. While many of his views
    on social issues seem 'liberal', he fiercely rejects being described as a 'liberal'.
    He apparently loathes 'liberals' so much that he approves of Donald Trump
    because an enemy of his enemy must be his friend.
  8. Joined
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    14 Jan '21 18:341 edit
    @duchess64 said
    Not 'exactly like him'. He admires Noam Chomsky
    Don't be a $#&*(# 1d!ot. Trump couldn't make it past half a page... Jeez, what am I saying!? Trump couldn't make it past half a sentence of Chomsky! In which, at least, you're better than he is - you would make it past the first page.
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Jan '21 20:411 edit
    @shallow-blue said
    Don't be a $#&*(# 1d!ot. Trump couldn't make it past half a page... Jeez, what am I saying!? Trump couldn't make it past half a sentence of Chomsky! In which, at least, you're better than he is - you would make it past the first page.
    Shallow Blue shows his abysmal reading comprehension.

    "And there are many in our own Debates Forum exactly like him."
    --Suzianne

    Suzianne and I were referring ('him' ) NOT to Donald Trump, as Shallow Blue wrongly
    concluded, but to an American acquaintance of mine who generally admires Trump.

    When I write that he's a 'retired lawyer' (see my second post in this thread), would
    Shallow Blue conclude that I refer to Donald Trump?

    He graduated from the law school at UC Berkeley.
  10. Subscribershavixmir
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    15 Jan '21 04:29
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/12/donald-trump-us-joe-biden

    "Is Donald Trump an aberration or a symptom of a deeper US malady?
    The underlying causes of Trump’s rise to power must be addressed,
    from taming social media to tackling inequality"
    --Joseph Stiglietz

    "The assault on the US Capitol by Donald Trump’s supporters, incited
    by the president h ...[text shortened]... to the system', thus setting the stage again for
    another politician like Trump, only less stupid.
    My point, near exactly.
  11. Subscribershavixmir
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    17 Jan '21 07:47
    https://youtu.be/NGyuLVRoqJg

    This was on Colbert’s Late show.
    It’s an interview with people from Showtime’s “The Circus” (I don’t know what that is or who these people are).

    It’s only 6 minutes or so. But it gives a good impression of where the US and the Republican party is at this moment in time.

    And it is not a healthy situation.

    Basically, what’s being conveyed is that the trump delusional paranoia which has a load of MAGA-supporters living in some sort of alt-reality is wide-spread throughout the Republican party.

    “If Biden wins the election is rigged, if trump wins it is not.”
  12. Subscriberkevcvs57
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    17 Jan '21 13:33
    @shavixmir said
    My point, near exactly.
    I heard a sociologist in an interview describe the relationship between Trump and his base as symbiotic which I thought made sense.
    I’d imagine Trump would’ve been just as happy to have been the democrat incumbent of the White House.
    I may be showing a bias but I think registered democrats are a lot less vulnerable to dog whistle catch phrases so I cannot imagine Trump had a chance of winning a democrat primary.
  13. Joined
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    17 Jan '21 16:58
    @kevcvs57 said
    I heard a sociologist in an interview describe the relationship between Trump and his base as symbiotic which I thought made sense.
    I'm not sure about "symbiotic". It's too positive. I don't think there is a biological term for "mutually parasitic", though, so I suppose "symbiotic" will have to do.

    Can we coin the word "ambantibiotic"?
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