Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberuzless
    The So Fist
    Voice of Reason
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    18 Jul '18 17:23
    If you want to go live in another country, do you have that right to go live there or is it a privilege afforded to you by that country at their discretion?

    If you believe the latter, what rights as an individual do you think you should have in the new country?
  2. Germany
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    18 Jul '18 17:39
    Yes, people should be able to travel freely unless they are a danger to others, in which case government action to apprehend them is justified.
  3. Joined
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    18 Jul '18 17:47
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Yes, people should be able to travel freely unless they are a danger to others, in which case government action to apprehend them is justified.
    You did not answer the question.

    No it is not a right.
  4. Joined
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    18 Jul '18 17:51
    Originally posted by @uzless
    If you want to go live in another country, do you have that right to go live there or is it a privilege afforded to you by that country at their discretion?

    If you believe the latter, what rights as an individual do you think you should have in the new country?
    It is 100% discretionary. A country has the absolute right to deny admission to non-citizens.
  5. Germany
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    18 Jul '18 17:52
    Originally posted by @quackquack
    It is 100% discretionary. A country has the absolute right to deny admission to non-citizens.
    Why should the representatives have the right to deny admission without a given reason?
  6. Joined
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    18 Jul '18 17:582 edits
    Originally posted by @uzless
    If you want to go live in another country, do you have that right to go live there or is it a privilege afforded to you by that country at their discretion?

    If you believe the latter, what rights as an individual do you think you should have in the new country?
    We can speak of the ideal situation where people have access to a system for hearing of grievances that would justify their transportation out of a repressive situation and into a situation where they can thrive, or we can recognize historic and political realities in our discussion. An example of the latter is the role of colonizing powers in their cooresponding colonies/dependencies or post-colonial states. Related issues would include things like language and geopolitical barriers and hurdles.

    The UN could play a role if it were not structurally dysfunctional.
  7. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
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    18 Jul '18 18:301 edit
    Originally posted by @uzless
    If you want to go live in another country, do you have that right to go live there or is it a privilege afforded to you by that country at their discretion?

    If you believe the latter, what rights as an individual do you think you should have in the new country?
    No. Countries have the right to regulate immigration.

    Once they do let you in, though, you're entitled to all basic human rights plus all rights legally afforded to lawful residents of the country.

    For example, countries are justified in denying immigrants access to government subsidized healthcare if that's the stipulation it made when allowing the immigrant into the country. But it may not deny immigrants access to fair trials or freedom of speech or religion, as those rights are inherent.
  8. Germany
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    18 Jul '18 18:31
    Originally posted by @sh76
    No. Countries have the right to regulate immigration.
    Why?
  9. SubscriberTom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
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    18 Jul '18 18:33
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Yes, people should be able to travel freely unless they are a danger to others, in which case government action to apprehend them is justified.
    So you support borders and a vetting process. Good for you.
  10. Zugzwang
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    18 Jul '18 18:59
    Originally posted by @uzless
    If you want to go live in another country, do you have that right to go live there or is it a privilege afforded to you by that country at their discretion?

    If you believe the latter, what rights as an individual do you think you should have in the new country?
    "If you want to go live in another country..."
    --Uzless

    Not everyone who 'wants to go live in another country' is classified as an 'immigrant'.
    Some such people may be classified as 'refugees'.

    Under international law and conventions, refugees have some rights:
    http://www.unhcr.org/afr/publications/brochures/3b779dfe2/protecting-refugees-questions-answers.html

    "A refugee has the right to safe asylum. However, international protection comprises
    more than physical safety. Refugees should receive at least the same rights and basic
    help as any other foreigner who is a legal resident, including freedom of thought, of
    movement, and freedom from torture and degrading treatment.

    Economic and social rights are equally applicable. Refugees should have access to
    medical care, schooling and the right to work."
  11. Zugzwang
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    18 Jul '18 19:071 edit
    Originally posted by @quackquack to Uzless
    It is 100% discretionary. A country has the absolute right to deny admission to non-citizens.
    Not everyone who seeks entry into a foreign country is an 'immigrant', some are classified as 'refugees'.
    Under international law and conventions, refugees have some rights, including asylum.

    https://ijrcenter.org/refugee-law/
    "Article 14(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), which was
    adopted in 1948, guarantees the right to seek and enjoy asylum in other countries.
    Subsequent regional human rights instruments have elaborated on this right,
    guaranteeing the “right to seek and be granted asylum in a foreign territory, in
    accordance with the legislation of the state and international conventions.'"

    http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html
    Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    "Article 14.
    (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
    (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from
    non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations."
  12. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
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    18 Jul '18 20:22
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Why?
    For the same reason I have the right to keep you out of my family's house.
  13. Germany
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    18 Jul '18 20:24
    Originally posted by @sh76
    For the same reason I have the right to keep you out of my family's house.
    I see. So the state of NY can set up immigration controls for citizens from outside NY? Or is the state of NY not a "family house"?
  14. Germany
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    18 Jul '18 20:26
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    So you support borders and a vetting process. Good for you.
    I support national borders in a similar sense as you support municipal borders.

    I think there should be an equal vetting process for citizens and non-citizens.
  15. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    18 Jul '18 21:002 edits
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    I see. So the state of NY can set up immigration controls for citizens from outside NY? Or is the state of NY not a "family house"?
    No, because New York entered into a compact with the other states to establish a Constitution that delegated the authority over immigration to a federal government. If NY were a sovereign country then, yes, it would be able to.
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