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Debates Forum

  1. 21 Apr '13 21:29
    I've watched the video of the "shootout" an hour prior to the capture of suspect #2 Dzhojhar Tsarnaev, and I only see and hear police autorifle fire, from cover directly opposite the driveway where the boat is located. My observation is of at least two rifles being fired full auto in several bursts of at least a half dozen (probably more) shots each. I can hear only the reports which match the muzzle flashes, so no return fire from the boat.

    This matches what the homeowner reported, that there was a body or unconscious person in the boat.

    What was all the shooting about? Who opened fire? Where did all those MISSES hit?

    I listen not only to what is said, but what is not in news stories. I haven't yet heard any story reporting how this suspect was armed, or if he was armed inside that boat.
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    21 Apr '13 21:39
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I've watched the video of the "shootout" an hour prior to the capture of suspect #2 Dzhojhar Tsarnaev, and I only see and hear police autorifle fire, from cover directly opposite the driveway where the boat is located. My observation is of at least two rifles being fired full auto in several bursts of at least a half dozen (probably more) shots each. I ...[text shortened]... t heard any story reporting how this suspect was armed, or if he was armed inside that boat.
    There were reports of an "exchange of gunfire" and that police used a bullhorn to urge the suspect to surrender. It seems unlikely he divested himself of all his weapons before hiding in the boat. But I'll await further facts.
  3. 21 Apr '13 21:44 / 1 edit
    After getting in an extended firefight and tossing explosives at police and killing and wounding them before getting away and hiding in someone's backyard WHO CARES what happened when they finally cornered him and captured him?

    Talk about splitting hairs. Jebus
  4. 21 Apr '13 21:46
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    There were reports of an "exchange of gunfire" and that police used a bullhorn to urge the suspect to surrender. It seems unlikely he divested himself of all his weapons before hiding in the boat. But I'll await further facts.
    That's what I am asking for, because there appears to be an intentional lack of reporting on this. It does appear that the Dzhokhar was severely wounded the night before, and may have been incapable of firing even if he had arms. Weapons are heavy, and get heavier when you're wounded.

    I do believe the gunfire by cops arriving at the scene was just irrational trigger happiness.
  5. 21 Apr '13 21:51
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    After getting in an extended firefight and tossing explosives at police and killing and wounding them before getting away and hiding in someone's backyard WHO CARES what happened when they finally cornered him and captured him?

    Talk about splitting hairs. Jebus
    We all should care. The bullets from those cops guns go somewhere. The first rule of gun safety, that cops are supposed to know and follow is "Know your target, and what is beyond."

    Besides, I think that the "Shelter in Place" and the massive police presence, including all the SWAT and armored vehicles were more of a display for the onlookers that for capturing Tsarkiev. The next time, they could be rounding up you and those like you to a FEMA camp.
  6. 21 Apr '13 21:56
    Originally posted by normbenign
    We all should care. The bullets from those cops guns go somewhere. The first rule of gun safety, that cops are supposed to know and follow is "Know your target, and what is beyond."

    Besides, I think that the "Shelter in Place" and the massive police presence, including all the SWAT and armored vehicles were more of a display for the onlookers that fo ...[text shortened]... g Tsarkiev. The next time, they could be rounding up you and those like you to a FEMA camp.
    You're right they should have just asked the stupidest rookie they could find to walk up to the boat and ask the guy to surrender.
  7. 21 Apr '13 22:12
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    You're right they should have just asked the stupidest rookie they could find to walk up to the boat and ask the guy to surrender.
    The homeowner walked up looked inside and saw an unconscious person, and lots of blood.

    What you are suggesting is ridiculous extremes. What they did, as far as I could observe, was to gain positions and unload automatic rifle fire, at a presumably fiberglass or wood boat. The news reports show a thermal photo taken from a helicopter above showing a prone body lying in the boat.

    I can totally understand an abundance of caution, especially with the suspect being a user of explosives. I can't understand wild automatic weapons fire.
  8. 21 Apr '13 22:15
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The homeowner walked up looked inside and saw an unconscious person, and lots of blood.

    What you are suggesting is ridiculous extremes. What they did, as far as I could observe, was to gain positions and unload automatic rifle fire, at a presumably fiberglass or wood boat. The news reports show a thermal photo taken from a helicopter above showing a ...[text shortened]... y with the suspect being a user of explosives. I can't understand wild automatic weapons fire.
    they didn't know what they were walking into and neither do you.
    YOU go up and peek in the boat.
    Oh, wait...you're too busy being an armchair general.
  9. 21 Apr '13 22:21
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    they didn't know what they were walking into and neither do you.
    YOU go up and peek in the boat.
    Oh, wait...you're too busy being an armchair general.
    A civilian did with no adverse consequences. If it weren't for that civilian, suspect #2 would probably have bled out in the boat.

    The civilian told them he found an unconscious and bleeding person in his boat. The cops rolled up and started randomly firing. I couldn't tell from the video, who the cops were responsive to, but they did play police radio chatter at the time, and someone was hollering cease fire.
  10. 21 Apr '13 22:36
    Originally posted by normbenign
    A civilian did with no adverse consequences. If it weren't for that civilian, suspect #2 would probably have bled out in the boat.

    The civilian told them he found an unconscious and bleeding person in his boat. The cops rolled up and started randomly firing. I couldn't tell from the video, who the cops were responsive to, but they did play police radio chatter at the time, and someone was hollering cease fire.
    "The cops rolled up and started randomly firing"...
    You weren't there and you don't know that.
    you are just making up stuff now.

    The civilian peeked under the tarp and saw a person bleeding, whether he would have been alert when the police showed up and able to start shooting at them is anybody's guess. Certainly not your call to make while sitting in the comfort of your living room watching it on TV.
  11. 21 Apr '13 23:10
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I've watched the video of the "shootout" an hour prior to the capture of suspect #2 Dzhojhar Tsarnaev, and I only see and hear police autorifle fire, from cover directly opposite the driveway where the boat is located. My observation is of at least two rifles being fired full auto in several bursts of at least a half dozen (probably more) shots each. I ...[text shortened]... t heard any story reporting how this suspect was armed, or if he was armed inside that boat.
    Could you provide a link to this video?
  12. 21 Apr '13 23:13
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    "The cops rolled up and started randomly firing"...
    You weren't there and you don't know that.
    you are just making up stuff now.

    The civilian peeked under the tarp and saw a person bleeding, whether he would have been alert when the police showed up and able to start shooting at them is anybody's guess. Certainly not your call to make while sitting in the comfort of your living room watching it on TV.
    The neighbor shot video from four houses down on his Ipad. It was shown ad nauseum on Fox News. The video shows at least two distinct different muzzle flashes and simultaneous rapid reports indicating to me automatic weapons fire. There were multiple bursts from each of the two weapons. At about the same time flash bangs were deployed.

    I was pleading to myself, don't burn down Watertown. You do know that most of the buildings there are old woodframe structures, some a couple of hundred years old.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTRirPvOJUg Thirty or so rounds fired.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv3gcq5p_MY

    The video originally shown of the first cops to respond, has apparently been taken down.
  13. 21 Apr '13 23:14
    Originally posted by JS357
    Could you provide a link to this video?
    Wish I could, but it seems to have disappeared at Fox News, and from youtube after going viral.\
  14. 22 Apr '13 00:01
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I've watched the video of the "shootout" an hour prior to the capture of suspect #2 Dzhojhar Tsarnaev, and I only see and hear police autorifle fire, from cover directly opposite the driveway where the boat is located. My observation is of at least two rifles being fired full auto in several bursts of at least a half dozen (probably more) shots each. I ...[text shortened]... t heard any story reporting how this suspect was armed, or if he was armed inside that boat.
    Actually, those are some good questions. And I also question whether they needed martial law for the whole city to apprehend one perp.
  15. 22 Apr '13 00:29
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Actually, those are some good questions. And I also question whether they needed martial law for the whole city to apprehend one perp.
    The more I think about the questions I raised, and now that I can't find the video I saw after extensive searching on youtube and foxnews.com I wonder about what was not reported as much as about what was.

    I was sitting watching my big set in the living room, and watched the auto weapons fire up a driveway at a boat, not more than 50 yards away.

    A bit later foxnews broadcast a collection of police radio traffic which ended in suspect is down and we have him in custody. What interested me more was toward the beginning there was somebody loudly shouting cease fire! cease fire!

    I said to myself right there, I hope they don't end up burning down Watertown to get this guy.

    It turns out that after those first bursts, not another shot was fired. Not a single report I've seen since has said how suspect 2 was armed, or if he was armed.