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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member vivify
    rain
    25 May '17 19:20
    There are many topics covered on this forum regarding terrorism, corruption in (usually American) government, and occasionally, hate crimes, such as the one started by Phranny.

    Can anyone think of any action that I can actually take? I mean, something more than simply typing on a website. Is there any organization I (or any of us here) can join to actively do something meaningful, and help society at large? Whether that's helping the poor, fighting lawmakers from passing bigoted laws, etc.?

    Obviously, that means looking into my local area and seeing what needs can be filled, which I will do. But I was hoping someone could point me to some meaningful organization where my time actually leads to something really being done for the good of society.

    I also want to ask that everyone hold off on attempts at a witty or sarcastic or other kind of put-down, at least for the first page of this thread. I'm seriously asking for any advice.

    Thanks.
  2. 25 May '17 19:45 / 1 edit
    I am sure that you can easily find organisations in your area that are actively involved in such matters that will appreciate your help. If you just want to give money, then there are plenty of charities around. If you want to give your life, then there are plenty of worth while things you could do in Africa.
    Where I come from, I know that Rotary International does a lot of good genuine work.
    But if you really really want to make the maximum difference, then start with politics. Start by calling your local representatives and letting them know what you want. Then let them know that you also want to change the way the whole electoral process works so that there is less influence from industry and big money in elections.
    Talk to your friends and get them to contact their representatives. Although big money does have a big influence in the US, the fact is that people simply don't let their views known enough.
    At the end of the day all poverty is a failure of government and political systems.

    And educate yourself. Learn some history especially.

    Also, if you have never left the US, I highly recommend travelling and learning about how other people live in other parts of the world. It can be a real eye opener.
  3. 25 May '17 20:28
    Originally posted by vivify
    There are many topics covered on this forum regarding terrorism, corruption in (usually American) government, and occasionally, hate crimes, such as the one started by Phranny.

    Can anyone think of any action that I can actually take? I mean, something more than simply typing on a website. Is there any organization I (or any of us here) can join to acti ...[text shortened]... , at least for the first page of this thread. I'm seriously asking for any advice.

    Thanks.
    "I'm seriously asking for any advice."
    -- Vivify

    Oh, really? Not from me, if Vivify keeps acting like usual.

    If I recall correctly, Vivify once asked what I would recommend to help him become better
    informed about or more involved in how Americans approach the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
    I recommended some books (which I hoped would be accessible for an ignorant American
    'brainwashed' by the US media's extreme pro-Israeli propaganda) and I suggested getting
    in touch with organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace or a local university's Palestinian student group.
    Did Vivify try any of my suggestions?
  4. 25 May '17 20:31
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "I'm seriously asking for any advice."
    -- Vivify

    Oh, really? Not from me, if Vivify keeps acting like usual.

    If I recall correctly, Vivify once asked what I would recommend to help him become better
    informed about or more involved in how Americans approach the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
    I recommended some books (which I hoped would be accessi ...[text shortened]... Peace or a local university's Palestinian student group.
    Did Vivify try any of my suggestions?
    This couldn't wait til page 2?
  5. 25 May '17 20:40 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead to Vivify
    I am sure that you can easily find organisations in your area that are actively involved in such matters that will appreciate your help. If you just want to give money, then there are plenty of charities around. If you want to give your life, then there are plenty of worth while things you could do in Africa.
    Where I come from, I know that Rota ...[text shortened]... d learning about how other people live in other parts of the world. It can be a real eye opener.
    "Learn some history especially."
    --Twhitehead

    That's easier said than done for a typical layman about many subjects of history.
    Learning history is not necessarily as simple as reading any history book or watching any video.
    Few laymen seem able to distinguish more authoritative academic history books from
    more entertaining popular history books.

    An average tourist should hardly go wandering around on one's own in the wilderness.
    He or she tends to have a better experience by employing a guide. Likewise, a layman
    benefits from following a reputable historian's guidance when exploring fields of history.

    And there's a vast industry of propaganda (often backed by national governments)
    that aims to influence popular perceptions of history. For example, students in Russia
    are being taught differently from students in Ukraine about the history of the Crimea.

    As far as I can tell, many people have no sincere interest in learning 'objective' history.
    They prefer to learn only enough historical narratives to support their ideological agendas.
  6. 25 May '17 20:44
    Originally posted by chaney3
    This couldn't wait til page 2?
    I noticed no eagerness by other people to write the 15 posts needed to fill the first page.

    I don't expect the disingenuous Vivify to listen seriously to anything that I recommend,
    so I shall attempt *to waste no more time* making any recommendations.
  7. 25 May '17 21:13
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I noticed no eagerness by other people to write the 15 posts needed to fill the first page.

    I don't expect the disingenuous Vivify to listen seriously to anything that I recommend,
    so I shall attempt *to waste no more time* making any recommendations.
    Well, he seems sincere? Maybe your suggestions could give some people insight into how to help society.
    What do you have?
  8. 25 May '17 21:28 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Well, he seems sincere? Maybe your suggestions could give some people insight into how to help society.
    What do you have?
    Chaney3 has no knowledge of my long record of experiences with Vivify.

    Some years ago, Sh76, an American Jewish supporter of Israel and Zionism, created a thread
    (getting predictable applause from naive Westerners) in which he claimed to have a sincere
    interest in meeting people 'on the other side' to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
    Sh76 proposed to do this by meeting random Muslims in a local mosque, even though
    most of these Muslims probably would not be Arabs and few, if any, would be Palestinians.
    (And I note that not all Palestinians are Muslims.) I don't know what Sh76 expected to gain
    by discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with an Indonesian Muslim, for instance, who
    probably has no particular interest or concern about what happens to the Palestinians.

    I suggested that *if* Sh76 was sincere in wishing to meet people 'on the other side', then
    he could start by contacting a local university's Palestinian group. (As far as I know, most
    sizable universities in the USA have a Palestinian student group, registered with the authorities.)
    It's not that hard to meet Palestinians, even in the USA, if one has a sincere wish to do so.
    As far as I can tell, Sh76 never considered my suggestion and never met any Palestinians.
  9. 25 May '17 21:30
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Chaney3 has no knowledge of my long record of experiences with Vivify.
    Okay. But do you have some valuable information for everybody other than vivify on this subject?
  10. 25 May '17 21:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Okay. But do you have some valuable information for everybody other than vivify on this subject?
    Can Chaney3 comprehend what I wrote in post 5? I already gave advice about how to learn history.

    "Learning history is not necessarily as simple as reading any history book or watching any video.
    Few laymen seem able to distinguish more authoritative academic history books from
    more entertaining popular history books.

    An average tourist should hardly go wandering around on one's own in the wilderness.
    He or she tends to have a better experience by employing a guide. Likewise, a layman
    benefits from following a reputable historian's guidance when exploring fields of history.

    And there's a vast industry of propaganda (often backed by national governments)
    that aims to influence popular perceptions of history. For example, students in Russia
    are being taught differently from students in Ukraine about the history of the Crimea."
  11. 25 May '17 21:42
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Can Chaney3 comprehend what I wrote in post 5? I already gave advice about how to learn history.

    "Learning history is not necessarily as simple as reading any history book or watching any video.
    Few laymen seem able to distinguish more authoritative academic history books from
    more entertaining popular history books.

    An average tourist should hard ...[text shortened]... Russia
    are being taught differently from students in Ukraine about the history of the Crimea."
    Vivify mentioned nothing about learning history in the OP.
  12. 25 May '17 21:44
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Vivify mentioned nothing about learning history in the OP.
    "And educate yourself. Learn some history especially."
    --Twhitehead (to Vivify)

    I commented upon Twhitehead's advice to Vivify.

    Instead of just trolling me, can Chaney3 write anything to help Vivify (about whom he pretends to care)?
  13. Standard member vivify
    rain
    25 May '17 21:48
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I am sure that you can easily find organisations in your area that are actively involved in such matters that will appreciate your help. If you just want to give money, then there are plenty of charities around. If you want to give your life, then there are plenty of worth while things you could do in Africa.
    Where I come from, I know that Rotary Interna ...[text shortened]... d learning about how other people live in other parts of the world. It can be a real eye opener.
    I've never heard of Rotary International, I'll look into them.

    Thank you for your input.
  14. 25 May '17 21:51
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "And educate yourself. Learn some history especially."
    --Twhitehead (to Vivify)

    I commented upon Twhitehead's advice to Vivify.

    Instead of just trolling me, can Chaney3 write anything to help Vivify (about whom he pretends to care)?
    I'm not trolling you. That term 'troll' seems to get tossed around here a lot when people disagree, or are unhappy with a point of view.

    I didn't ask you about twhitehead's history comment to vivify, I asked you for your 'supposed' awesome knowledge you 'say' you are keeping secret because you don't like vivify.
  15. 25 May '17 22:12 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by chaney3
    I'm not trolling you. That term 'troll' seems to get tossed around here a lot when people disagree, or are unhappy with a point of view.

    I didn't ask you about twhitehead's history comment to vivify, I asked you for your 'supposed'
    awesome knowledge you 'say' you are keeping secret because you don't like vivify.
    Twhitehead's advice to Vivify about learning history is good advice in general.
    If Chaney3 has any sincere interest, then he can read my earlier posts about history rather
    than demanding that I waste my time in reposting what I suspect he will ignore or sneer at.

    I note that Chaney3 has ample time to write post after post putting me down while he
    cannot offer even one contribution of his own to help Vivify, his supposed aim in all this.