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  1. Standard member vivify
    rain
    10 Aug '15 17:46
    Guy in the video makes some striking points related double-standards. Warning: this video has profanity.

    YouTube
  2. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Aug '15 18:54
    When this idiot makes a supposedly hypothetical suggestion about how people would react to men treating violence against women as though it were a humorous and amusing topic, then he fails to notice that this already happens all the time, there is nothing hypothetical whatever about his hypothetical scenario, and contrary to what he ways, people do not go "ape - sh.." over such stuff. Indeed, it has been so prevalent that we now refer to it as "rape culture."

    So when this stupid looking speaker with his ludicrous hat says all he wants is a little consistency (between our responses to what men say and those to what feminist women say) then my answer would be that feminists are working to achieve precisely that outcome, by responding in kind to the abuse they have been subject to over the years. The only reason it is at all amusing (rather than being plainly sick, which it risks becoming of course) is precisely that, unlike male violence against women, retaliatory violence against violent men is unusual and noteworthy.

    Now I would not advocate that women retaliate with violence against violence and I would advocate alternative solutions; I can see therefore that there may be a valid and even potentially interesting discussion to be had about the incident he describes in this video, if the guy were remotely interested in putting forward a constructive suggestion about how the female victims of male violence might protect themselves and their sisters from continuing abuse by methods short of physically castrating the men responsible, but this video is not interesting, this man's arguments are not valid and this video offers nothing constructive.

    Why am I not surprised?
  3. Standard member vivify
    rain
    10 Aug '15 19:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The only reason it is at all amusing (rather than being plainly sick, which it risks becoming of course) is precisely that, unlike male violence against women, retaliatory violence against violent men is unusual and noteworthy.
    I surprised that you can consider a gruesome crime at all "amusing" just because it's "unusual". If a black cop abuses a white man, can I make joke about it?

    The show in question is called "The Talk", and the man's wife mutilated him for wanting a divorce. That's it. She wasn't defending herself, and I haven't seen any indication that he'd been abusive toward her. I'll provide a link, but you can look it up yourself:

    https://www.nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/17517-cbss-the-talk-cal
  4. Standard member vivify
    rain
    10 Aug '15 19:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    When this idiot makes a supposedly hypothetical suggestion about how people would react to men treating violence against women as though it were a humorous and amusing topic, then he fails to notice that this already happens all the time,
    "All the time" where? Are you referring to less developed nations? If you're saying that jokes about mutilated women "happens all the time" in western nations, you'll have to provide some evidence of that.

    In America, people would most definitely be an uproar over a panel of men laughing at woman who was mutilated by a man simply for wanting a divorce, and saying things like "that'll teach her" like what was said on that show about the man. Sharon Osborne's comments were disgusting and reprehensible.
  5. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Aug '15 20:16
    Originally posted by vivify
    I surprised that you can consider a gruesome crime at all "amusing" just because it's "unusual". If a black cop abuses a white man, can I make joke about it?

    The show in question is called "The Talk", and the man's wife mutilated him for wanting a divorce. That's it. She wasn't defending herself, and I haven't seen any indication that he'd been abusiv ...[text shortened]... look it up yourself:

    https://www.nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/17517-cbss-the-talk-cal
    Get over yourself and spare us the synthetic, totally insincere outbursts.

    Nobody considers a gruesome crime amusing, That is why the horror story genre competes so closely with murder stories, war movies, graphic wild west stories, and even Mel Gibson's account of the Passion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Aif1qEB_JU

    People take their partner to violent movies as part of the standard Western courtship ritual.
  6. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Aug '15 20:20
    Originally posted by vivify
    "All the time" where? Are you referring to less developed nations? If you're saying that jokes about mutilated women "happens all the time" in western nations, you'll have to provide some evidence of that.

    In America, people would most definitely be an uproar over a panel of men laughing at woman who was mutilated by a man simply for wanting a divorce, ...[text shortened]... s said on that show about the man. Sharon Osborne's comments were disgusting and reprehensible.
    "Rape culture includes jokes, TV, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, words and imagery, that make violence against women and sexual coercion seem so normal that people believe that rape is inevitable. Rather than viewing the culture of rape as a problem to change, people in a rape culture think about the persistence of rape as “just the way things are.”

    http://www.wavaw.ca/what-is-rape-culture/

    Actually there are so many sources I could reference to support my statements that it is tedious to even start. You are as able to use Google as I am. You search for and consider what you choose.
  7. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Aug '15 20:35
    Originally posted by vivify
    Guy in the video makes some striking points related double-standards. Warning: this video has profanity.

    [youtube]RX73tDaBC1E[/youtube]
    http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/

    25 Everyday Examples of Rape Culture
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Aug '15 20:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    "All the time" where? Are you referring to less developed nations? If you're saying that jokes about mutilated women "happens all the time" in western nations, you'll have to provide some evidence of that.

    In America, people would most definitely be an uproar over a panel of men laughing at woman who was mutilated by a man simply for wanting a divorce, ...[text shortened]... s said on that show about the man. Sharon Osborne's comments were disgusting and reprehensible.
    Is 1 in 5 American women surviving rape or attempted rape considered a cultural norm? Is 1 in 6 men being abused before the age of 18 a cultural norm? These statistics are not just shocking, they represent real people. Yet, these millions of survivors and allies don’t raise their collective voices to educate America about our culture of rape because of fear. Rape culture is a real and serious, and we need to talk about it. Simply put, feminists want equality for everyone and that begins with physical safety.

    “If so many millions of women were getting carjacked or kidnapped, we’d call it a public crisis. That we accept it as normal, even inevitable, is all the evidence I need,” ... “If we already despise rapists, why are they so rarely held accountable in any way?,” Friedman asks. An analysis by RAINN found that 97% of rapists never spend a single day in jail for their crimes. “What we really despise is the idea of rapists: a terrifying monster lurking in the bushes, waiting to pounce on an innocent girl as she walks by,” Friedman says. “But actual rapists, men who are usually known to (and often loved by) their victims? Men who are sometimes our sports heroes, political leaders, buddies, boyfriends and fathers? Evidence suggests we don’t despise them nearly as much as we should.”

    http://time.com/40110/rape-culture-is-real/
  9. Standard member vivify
    rain
    10 Aug '15 22:01
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Is 1 in 5 American women surviving rape or attempted rape considered a cultural norm? Is 1 in 6 men being abused before the age of 18 a cultural norm? These statistics are not just shocking, they represent real people. Yet, these millions of survivors and allies don’t raise their collective voices to educate America about our culture of rape because of fear ...[text shortened]... don’t despise them nearly as much as we should.”

    http://time.com/40110/rape-culture-is-real/
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The fact that that rape is (sadly) frequent doesn't mean that it's considered okay to make jokes about it. Anyone man who mocks a woman for being raped would feel a heavy backlash from the public.
  10. Standard member vivify
    rain
    10 Aug '15 22:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    "Rape culture includes jokes, TV, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, words and imagery, that make violence against women and sexual coercion seem so normal that people believe that rape is inevitable. Rather than viewing the culture of rape as a problem to change, people in a rape culture think about the persistence of rape as “just the way things are. ...[text shortened]... even start. You are as able to use Google as I am. You search for and consider what you choose.
    The examples in your link only show that rape culture exists, not that it's considered the least bit acceptable. For example, one issue involves Facebook and it's refusal to remove images of violence against women. This is hardly the same as those women on "The Talk" who outright laughed at a mutilated man. Images can be made and posted on the internet anonymously; those women, namely Sharon Osborne, were on television laughing at a mutilated man, and defending their actions when a co-host pointed out that they wouldn't be laughing if it were a woman who was mutilated.

    A panel of men on TV could never, EVER so casually laugh a female victim of mutilation.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Aug '15 22:52
    Originally posted by vivify
    The examples in your link only show that rape culture exists, not that it's considered the least bit acceptable. For example, one issue involves Facebook and it's refusal to remove images of violence against women. This is hardly the same as those women on "The Talk" who outright laughed at a mutilated man. Images can be made and posted on the internet aut ...[text shortened]... ed.

    A panel of men on TV could never, EVER so casually laugh a female victim of mutilation.
    I find your OTT response to this story strange. Perhaps you have an excessive fear of castration? I am not suggesting that I would be cool with such an event in my own case, but it is not something on which I dwell with quite the gothic dread you are displaying. We all have our nightmares of course. Imagine being taken to sea by Ted Heath for example? Yuk.
  12. Standard member vivify
    rain
    10 Aug '15 22:55
    Originally posted by finnegan
    I find your OTT response to this story strange. Perhaps you have an excessive fear of castration? I am not suggesting that I would be cool with such an event in my own case, but it is not something on which I dwell with quite the gothic dread you are displaying. We all have our nightmares of course. Imagine being taken to sea by Ted Heath for example? Yuk.
    Wow. Would you mock a woman who objected to jokes about victims of female genital mutilation in the same way?
  13. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Aug '15 23:36
    Originally posted by vivify
    Wow. Would you mock a woman who objected to jokes about victims of female genital mutilation in the same way?
    I would not mock a woman who objected to jokes about victims of fgm. But women who do object to such jokes are frequently subjected to a barrage of abuse. And such jokes do exist and are not rare.

    Let me say this very very slowly.

    People tell rape jokes a lot. Google will direct you to a selection if you ask.

    For a long time and for many audiences they have been able to tell rape jokes without repercussions.

    I think that is sick.

    So do many feminists who choose to fight back against that type of humour.

    When they object, they in turn often become targets for abuse.

    Your attempt to pretend that such humour does not exist, or is not mainstream, or consistently gets seriously attacked when it is expressed, is just disingenuous.

    The rare occasions when feminists do object stand out and when discussed, the women who object are as likely to be the ones abused as the men who tell the offending jokes.
  14. 11 Aug '15 00:25 / 6 edits
    Originally posted by vivify to Finnegan
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The fact that that rape is (sadly) frequent doesn't mean
    that it's considered okay to make jokes about it.
    Anyone man who mocks a woman for being raped would feel a heavy backlash from the public.
    "Anyone man who mocks a woman for being raped would feel a heavy backlash from the public."
    --Vivify

    FALSE. In fact, many women or girls who have raped have been ridiculed, harassed, or
    threatened by the public, while the men accused--or sometimes even convicted--of raping
    them have been widely admired by the public. In particular, this happens to women who
    dared to accuse men with much fame, power, or wealth of raping them.

    In his recent book _Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town_, Jon Kraukauer
    describes how a young woman was ostracized after she dared to accuse a popular man
    (the star quarterback on the university's football team) of raping her. He was acquitted.
    A common excuse heard was that a star football player would *not have to rape* a young
    woman in order to have sexual intercourse with her because every young woman supposedly
    would be thrilled at the opportunity to sleep with him. That reminds me of a story when
    Donald Trump (a married man) supposedly attempted to seduce Katarina Witt, an Olympic
    figure skating champion from the DDR (East Germany). Presuming she would be overawed
    by his weath, Donald Trump asked her why she had rejected him, and Katarina Witt said,
    "Someone has to start a trend." (As I recall, Donald Trump has denied this happened.)

    In fact, women and girls are often blamed for being raped, while excuses are made for their rapists.
    Some of the frequently asked questions of women include: "How much was she drinking?
    How revealing was her attire? Did she smile or act in an enticing way toward him?"
    But in most contemporary Western cultures, a *normal* young woman is *expected* to
    go out in revealing attire (short skirt and all), have some drinks, and smile and act in a friendly,
    even sexy, way toward men. But all this is often taken as evidence that she was 'asking for it'.
  15. 11 Aug '15 00:47
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    But in most contemporary Western cultures, a *normal* young woman is *expected* to
    go out in revealing attire (short skirt and all), have some drinks, and smile and act in a friendly,
    even sexy, way toward men. But all this is often taken as evidence that she was 'asking for it'.[/b]
    A women's actions and behavior is relevant to the issue of consent. Unless we blindly decide that whatever an alleged victim claims is true, we must examine the facts to determine the case.