Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Stargazing
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    89251
    24 Sep '17 08:041 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Just look at Juncker... doing what?
    Blinkers on again KN? His term of self-serving smart-assery will come to an end once the remaining EU powerbases realise that his amusing anti-UK rhetoric is actually not helping anyone. Here are a few of his gems, which reveal why the EU in its current forum and current leadership is finished:

    On Greece's economic meltdown in 2011
    "When it becomes serious, you have to lie.

    On EU monetary policy
    "I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

    On British calls for a referendum over Lisbon Treaty
    “Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,”

    On French referendum over EU constitution
    “If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’,”

    On the introduction of the euro
    "We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."

    On eurozone economic policy and democracy
    “We all know what to do, we just don't know how to get re-elected after we've done it”

    Source: Telegraph
  2. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    24 Sep '17 08:51
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Blinkers on again KN? His term of self-serving smart-assery will come to an end once the remaining EU powerbases realise that his amusing anti-UK rhetoric is actually not helping anyone. Here are a few of his gems, which reveal why the EU in its current forum and current leadership is finished:

    On Greece's economic meltdown in 2011
    "When it b ...[text shortened]... w what to do, we just don't know how to get re-elected after we've done it”

    Source: Telegraph
    Yikes, that's bad. Better throw a few billion down the drain and severely curtail people's freedoms because of some mean things someone allegedly said.
  3. Stargazing
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    89251
    24 Sep '17 09:34
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Yikes, that's bad. Better throw a few billion down the drain and severely curtail people's freedoms because of some mean things someone allegedly said.
    I was addressing your glib comment "junker, doing what?"

    For someone who delights in "facts" you certainly can obfuscate with the best when faced with some you don't like.

    As for "freedoms", (whatever they are) we call it democracy in this country.
  4. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    24 Sep '17 09:49
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I was addressing your glib comment [b]"junker, doing what?"

    For someone who delights in "facts" you certainly can obfuscate with the best when faced with some you don't like.

    As for "freedoms", (whatever they are) we call it democracy in this country.[/b]
    I have no special affinity for Juncker and never claimed I approve of and agree with everything he has ever said. Nor have I suggested the EU is perfect, run by almighty, enlightened individuals that can do no wrong, nor is the EU the very essence of nirvana.

    I do think that tackling the institutionalized discrimination (in this context, against non-citizens) that still exists in the world today is important, and the EU as a transnational institution providing human rights guarantees to EU citizens is one small step towards this goal. The U.K.'s exit is a step backwards, a consequence of an inward-looking, obscurantist and reactionary way of thinking and an ever-lingering taboo on discussing the rampant bigotry that permeates our societies.
  5. Joined
    15 Jul '10
    Moves
    134261
    24 Sep '17 14:46
    Best President We have ever had.
  6. Stargazing
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    89251
    24 Sep '17 17:233 edits
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    I have no special affinity for Juncker and never claimed I approve of and agree with everything he has ever said. Nor have I suggested the EU is perfect, run by almighty, enlightened individuals that can do no wrong, nor is the EU the very essence of nirvana.

    I do think that tackling the institutionalized discrimination (in this context, against non ...[text shortened]... king and an ever-lingering taboo on discussing the rampant bigotry that permeates our societies.
    Be that as it may be, I'm well aware of your jaundiced pin-holed view of brexit and as I said and demonstrated with the quotes above, if the EU commission wasn't led by a self-serving asshat with clear attitude issues and a massive ego, then perhaps the UK wouldn't be leaving.

    And as I also said, I was addressing your glib response "junker, doing what?" If you feel I haven't done that then feel free to say so instead of railing me with more of your angry rosy-spectacled idealism.

    The UK is leaving the EU and not a day too early. Get over it.
  7. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    24 Sep '17 17:41
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Be that as it may be, I'm well aware of your jaundiced pin-holed view of brexit and as I said and demonstrated with the quotes above, if the EU commission wasn't led by a self-serving asshat with clear attitude issues and a massive ego, then perhaps the UK wouldn't be leaving.

    And as I also said, I was addressing your glib response "junker, doing wh ...[text shortened]... ngry rosy-spectacled idealism.

    The UK is leaving the EU and not a day too early. Get over it.
    The vast majority of U.K. voters could not point out Juncker on a photograph. I'd be surprised if Juncker's politically incorrect comments swayed a single vote.

    Opposing discrimination and valuing human rights isn't "angry rosy-spectacled idealism."

    I don't lose sleep over Brexit and stand to benefit from it personally.
  8. Stargazing
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    89251
    24 Sep '17 19:20
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    The vast majority of U.K. voters could not point out Juncker on a photograph. I'd be surprised if Juncker's politically incorrect comments swayed a single vote.

    Opposing discrimination and valuing human rights isn't "angry rosy-spectacled idealism."

    I don't lose sleep over Brexit and stand to benefit from it personally.
    I'm not talking about voters...as I said I was merely responding to you pretending that you didn't know what the other poster was talking about when they said junker was showing his true colours. I've given you several examples of his true colours. The man needs replacing or the EU in its current structure is doomed. If it isn't already.

    Voting for brexit and a nation subsequently taking back control of its borders is NOT "discrimination", you really need to take a long hard look at your perspectives.

    You spend most of your time bleating on about the injustice associated with brexit, and you've still not explained how you will benefit from it personally (as if that somehow lends your protestations some sort of selfless credibiity).
  9. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    24 Sep '17 19:45
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I'm not talking about voters...as I said I was merely responding to you pretending that you didn't know what the other poster was talking about when they said junker was showing his true colours. I've given you several examples of his true colours. The man needs replacing or the EU in its current structure is doomed. If it isn't already.

    Voting for ...[text shortened]... om it personally (as if that somehow lends your protestations some sort of selfless credibiity).
    Juncker's comments have no bearing on the "structure" of the EU. I do think the EU's institutions need to be reformed in several important ways, primarily through empowering the European Parliament. I think you are dishonest in pretending that Juncker had any significant role in Brexit, which was voted through with the support of bigots, as you are well aware.

    Discriminating against non-citizens is discriminating. A perspective where discrimination is not discrimination does not exist.

    As I pointed out on several occasions in the past, I am an academic working in the EU and stand to potentially benefit from European research funds being diverted away from the U.K. towards the rest of Europe.
  10. Stargazing
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    89251
    24 Sep '17 19:481 edit
    JC Junker's speech/address to the EU community last week:

    - we need one 'president'
    - we need one finance minister
    - we need a European army by 2025
    - we need to expand the schengen zone via the Baltic states
    - if you are in the EU you will use the Euro, period.

    His strategy is to enforce discipline in the wake of the UKs courage to leave. The European counties need to revolt against this dictatorial rhetoric and bring down the EU.

    Long live economic and political independence and TRUE freedom.
  11. Stargazing
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    89251
    24 Sep '17 20:00
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Juncker's comments have no bearing on the "structure" of the EU. I do think the EU's institutions need to be reformed in several important ways, primarily through empowering the European Parliament. I think you are dishonest in pretending that Juncker had any significant role in Brexit, which was voted through with the support of bigots, as you are wel ...[text shortened]... nefit from European research funds being diverted away from the U.K. towards the rest of Europe.
    I bring you back yet again to your comment "Junker, doing what?". I pointed out to you with quote s both past and present what he is doing.

    Junker indirectly is responsible for brexit. If as Farague said recently, they he and the rest of the EU commission had listened when PMs such as Cameron had come asking for changes then brexit may not have happened. That some "bigots" did or didn't vote for it is irrelevant and you dragging the extreme right into a referendum wining vote that consisted of 18,000,000 people just shows your ignorance of this countries democracy, heritage and core voting public.

    Anyway you were pretending that JC Junker wasn't saying anything damaging...
  12. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    24 Sep '17 20:01
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    JC Junker's speech/address to the EU community last week:

    - we need one 'president'
    - we need one finance minister
    - we need a European army by 2025
    - we need to expand the schengen zone via the Baltic states
    - if you are in the EU you will use the Euro, period.

    His strategy is to enforce discipline in the wake of the UKs courage to leave. T ...[text shortened]... etoric and bring down the EU.

    Long live economic and political independence and TRUE freedom.
    Juncker has practically no authority to "enforce discipline" of any kind on EU members.

    I recommend you look up what the Commission Head, and by extension the EU executive branch, actually do.
  13. Stargazing
    Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    89251
    24 Sep '17 20:05
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Juncker has practically no authority to "enforce discipline" of any kind on EU members.

    I recommend you look up what the Commission Head, and by extension the EU executive branch, actually do.
    Not much in the UK very soon, thank god, haha!!

    Anytime you want to actually address the points I'm making instead of trying desperately to distance Mr Junker from any responsibility he has for the impending collapse of the EU, please feel free to do so.
  14. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    24 Sep '17 20:12
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I bring you back yet again to your comment "Junker, doing what?". I pointed out to you with quote s both past and present what he is doing.

    Junker indirectly is responsible for brexit. If as Farague said recently, they he and the rest of the EU commission had listened when PMs such as Cameron had come asking for changes then brexit may not have happ ...[text shortened]... voting public.

    Anyway you were pretending that JC Junker wasn't saying anything damaging...
    A few quotes is not "what he is doing."

    Brexit happened because many Britons don't like foreigners and they thought that by voting for Brexit fewer foreigners would come to Britain. This played an exceedingly larger role than the comments of a person most Britons have never even heard of. I suggest you deal with this reality, no matter how much it may hurt your fee-fees. Bigotry is not confined to the "extreme right."
  15. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    24 Sep '17 20:18
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Not much in the UK very soon, thank god, haha!!

    Anytime you want to actually address the points I'm making instead of trying desperately to distance Mr Junker from any responsibility he has for the impending collapse of the EU, please feel free to do so.
    If you would have bothered to read about what the EU does and how it works before casting your vote in the referendum, you would have known that the Commission president is mainly a figurehead with few formal powers, and important decisions in the EU are taken by and with the consent of national governments.
Back to Top