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Debates Forum

  1. 30 Sep '16 07:37
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/female-chess-players-accuse-governing-body-of-sex-discrimination/

    discrimination or respect for culture?
  2. 30 Sep '16 08:12
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/female-chess-players-accuse-governing-body-of-sex-discrimination/

    discrimination or respect for culture?
    Both.
    Showing respect for a culture that practices religious discrimination. The article says violating the rules may result in arrest, so it isn't so much showing respect but rather complying with local laws.
  3. 30 Sep '16 08:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/female-chess-players-accuse-governing-body-of-sex-discrimination/

    discrimination or respect for culture?
    if she doesn't want to wear it and somebody forces her to, it is wrong.
    if she does want to wear it and somebody forces her not to, it is equally wrong.
  4. 30 Sep '16 09:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Both.
    Showing respect for a culture that practices religious discrimination. The article says violating the rules may result in arrest, so it isn't so much showing respect but rather complying with local laws.
    Yes I would have to agree. Furthermore the hijab is associated with a a particular religion and I am not convinced that it is exclusively a cultural icon. Forcing a Christian or an atheist or anyone to wear am item of clothing associated with a particular religion is unethical.
  5. 30 Sep '16 09:57
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    if she doesn't want to wear it and somebody forces her to, it is wrong.
    if she does want to wear it and somebody forces her not to, it is equally wrong.
    Not only is it incumbent upon those who visit this place but she risks arrest if she refuses to conform. Would I expect you to wear a kilt if you visited Scotland for a chess tournament insisting that its cultural and threaten you with incarceration if you refused? I think this puts it in perspective. If FIDE cannot guarantee the safety of its female players then it has no right top act as a governing body.
  6. 30 Sep '16 10:21
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Would I expect you to wear a kilt if you visited Scotland for a chess tournament insisting that its cultural and threaten you with incarceration if you refused?
    I am fairly sure that Scotland law would prohibit him from showing up naked. I could be wrong but I believe Iran requires a head covering rather than a very specific item of clothing.
    All societies have standards of dress, some are just a lot more strict than others.
  7. 30 Sep '16 11:13
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I am fairly sure that Scotland law would prohibit him from showing up naked. I could be wrong but I believe Iran requires a head covering rather than a very specific item of clothing.
    All societies have standards of dress, some are just a lot more strict than others.
    why do they require a head covering though? is it not to conform to some Islamic interpretation of what constitutes modesty? Why is it ethical to ask an atheist to conform to some religious interpretation of what constitutes modest dress?
  8. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    30 Sep '16 12:50
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why do they require a head covering though? is it not to conform to some Islamic interpretation of what constitutes modesty? Why is it ethical to ask an atheist to conform to some religious interpretation of what constitutes modest dress?
    I think the number of avowed atheists in Iran is close to zero. NOW.
  9. 30 Sep '16 14:30 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why do they require a head covering though? is it not to conform to some Islamic interpretation of what constitutes modesty?
    Yes, it is to conform to some Islamic interpretation of what constitutes modesty, just as in Scotland you require a penis covering as that constitutes a Scottish form of modesty.

    Why is it ethical to ask an atheist to conform to some religious interpretation of what constitutes modest dress?
    I personally would prefer all societies to be secular and to have reasonably liberal laws. But I do recognise that such issues are not as black and white as you would paint them. If we had a nudist colony next door to where I live, I might object and approve of laws that restricted where they could go in the nude. Would that be unethical of me?
  10. 30 Sep '16 14:48
    So if Gary Kasprov puts a hijab on is it showing respect or disrespect?
  11. 30 Sep '16 15:04
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Yes, it is to conform to some Islamic interpretation of what constitutes modesty, just as in Scotland you require a penis covering as that constitutes a Scottish form of modesty.

    [b]Why is it ethical to ask an atheist to conform to some religious interpretation of what constitutes modest dress?

    I personally would prefer all societies to be secular ...[text shortened]... approve of laws that restricted where they could go in the nude. Would that be unethical of me?[/b]
    FIDE already has rules which govern what is considered appropriate dress including that of nudity or semi nudity and its difficult to determine why these are not sufficient to hold a chess tournament.
  12. 30 Sep '16 15:24
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why do they require a head covering though? is it not to conform to some Islamic interpretation of what constitutes modesty? Why is it ethical to ask an atheist to conform to some religious interpretation of what constitutes modest dress?
    The only solution is to seek the global minimum of stupid laws restricting people's private lives and hold every tournament for every sport in the Netherlands from now on.
  13. 30 Sep '16 15:58
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Yes, it is to conform to some Islamic interpretation of what constitutes modesty, just as in Scotland you require a penis covering as that constitutes a Scottish form of modesty.

    [b]Why is it ethical to ask an atheist to conform to some religious interpretation of what constitutes modest dress?

    I personally would prefer all societies to be secular ...[text shortened]... approve of laws that restricted where they could go in the nude. Would that be unethical of me?[/b]
    What?! You can stride triumphantly down Glasgow High Street in your birthday suit, wrestling Auld Lang Syne from an octopus as you go, so long as you've sent a French letter to your tadger? Scottish modesty, you say? Egads!
  14. 30 Sep '16 21:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    FIDE already has rules which govern what is considered appropriate dress including that of nudity or semi nudity and its difficult to determine why these are not sufficient to hold a chess tournament.
    Because countries have rules and if the tournament takes place in that country, those rules must be followed. FIDE does not get to override a countries laws. A nudist club would not be allowed to go around nude in Zambia.

    If FIDE or its members object to those rules, they can boycott. However, if I were them, I would boycott for other reasons than dress.
  15. 30 Sep '16 21:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Green Paladin
    What?! You can stride triumphantly down Glasgow High Street in your birthday suit, wrestling Auld Lang Syne from an octopus as you go, so long as you've sent a French letter to your tadger? Scottish modesty, you say? Egads!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country#United_Kingdom

    Stephen Gough, who became known as the Naked Rambler, walked the length of Great Britain naked in 2003-2004. He tried to repeat his walk from 2006, but was repeatedly arrested and imprisoned, mostly in Scotland. As of 2013 he had spent six years in prison on several sentences, mainly for breach of the peace and also contempt of court (the law and definitions of offences differ between Scotland on the one hand and England and Wales), without having completed his walk.