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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 25 Aug '15 08:55
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d667Bb_iYA

    gays can get married now. they have gotten everything they asked for, right? all is right in the world.


    a gay couple can get married on sunday and fired on monday.
    in many states they can be refused loans, they can be denied service.
    there is a story about a pediatrician who refused to treat the sick infant of a lesbian couple (how many shades of disgusting you have to be to refuse to treat a child)

    oh and there's a baker in colorado (bakers seem to be the champions of traditional marriage) who refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay marriage but had no problem selling a cake for a dog wedding (male and female obviously, anything different would be an affront to god)
  2. Subscriber Brother Edwin
    7 edits
    25 Aug '15 09:18 / 1 edit
    It was not a refuse to sell, it was a refuse to get involved in the catering of I believe? Look into that story in more depth.

    I think its a company's own business who they do business with. If they turn away customers they will lose money.

    Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with it.
  3. 25 Aug '15 09:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    It was not a refuse to sell, it was a refuse to get involved in the catering of I believe? Look into that story in more depth.
    I looked into it and found no evidence to support that claim. What I found was that he refused to sell cakes. Do you have any references to the contrary?

    I think its a company's own business who they do business with.
    Thankfully, the law thinks otherwise.

    Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with it.
    They are free to think that. They are not free to discriminate in business based on that. Deal with it.
  4. 25 Aug '15 10:24
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    It was not a refuse to sell, it was a refuse to get involved in the catering of I believe? Look into that story in more depth.

    I think its a company's own business who they do business with. If they turn away customers they will lose money.

    Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with it.
    ah, you go with the "he didn't want to be involved" excuse. yes, that is stupid.

    the baker is no more involved in a wedding than the supermarket who sells the fish.
  5. 25 Aug '15 10:26
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    It was not a refuse to sell, it was a refuse to get involved in the catering of I believe? Look into that story in more depth.

    I think its a company's own business who they do business with. If they turn away customers they will lose money.

    Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with it.
    "I think its a company's own business who they do business with."
    really? would you think that way if it was blacks they were refusing to do business with?

    how about a black shop owner refusing to sell to whites?


    a business may do whatever it pleases if it does it equally to all races/gender/etc
  6. 25 Aug '15 10:27
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I looked into it and found no evidence to support that claim. What I found was that he refused to sell cakes. Do you have any references to the contrary?

    [b]I think its a company's own business who they do business with.

    Thankfully, the law thinks otherwise.

    Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with ...[text shortened]... e free to think that. They are not free to discriminate in business based on that. Deal with it.
    "Thankfully, the law thinks otherwise."
    that's the main problem. it is not law, not everywhere
  7. Subscriber Brother Edwin
    7 edits
    25 Aug '15 15:01 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I looked into it and found no evidence to support that claim. What I found was that he refused to sell cakes. Do you have any references to the contrary?

    [b]I think its a company's own business who they do business with.

    Thankfully, the law thinks otherwise.

    Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with ...[text shortened]... e free to think that. They are not free to discriminate in business based on that. Deal with it.
    I was confusing it with this story:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/02/indianas-memories-pizza-wouldnt-cater-gay-wedding-gets-40k-in-crowdfunding/

    Asking a Muslim business to sell to a drawer of Mohammed cartoons is acceptable, demanding by law that they get involved with a Mohammed drawing event is a bit much. Same with Jews and neo-Nazi's.
  8. Subscriber Brother Edwin
    7 edits
    25 Aug '15 15:03
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "I think its a company's own business who they do business with."
    really? would you think that way if it was blacks they were refusing to do business with?

    how about a black shop owner refusing to sell to whites?


    a business may do whatever it pleases if it does it equally to all races/gender/etc
    I would be fine with that from a law perspective. Not from a personal opinion perspective.

    Social media/boycotts would shut the business down f it was silly enough to do that.
  9. 25 Aug '15 15:06
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d667Bb_iYA

    gays can get married now. they have gotten everything they asked for, right? all is right in the world.


    a gay couple can get married on sunday and fired on monday.
    in many states they can be refused loans, they can be denied service.
    there is a story about a pediatrician who refused to treat the sick ...[text shortened]... ke for a dog wedding (male and female obviously, anything different would be an affront to god)
    Can gays get married in Romania?
  10. 25 Aug '15 15:15
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Can gays get married in Romania?
    is that relevant to the discussion?
  11. 25 Aug '15 15:19
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    is that relevant to the discussion?
    Can they?
  12. 25 Aug '15 15:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    It was not a refuse to sell, it was a refuse to get involved in the catering of I believe? Look into that story in more depth.

    I think its a company's own business who they do business with. If they turn away customers they will lose money.

    Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with it.
    Excuse me???? Some people feel that blacks are inferior and should be shipped out of the country or at least denied service by businesses. You must be living under a rock. It is against the law to refuse to serve people who are not robbing you or in some way breaking the laws of the land when they enter your establishment. As for your comment:
    "Some people believe that the creator of the universe disapproves of gays, deal with it.[/b]" Sounds to me like you think the creator of the universe must be the devil. Are you a devil worshiper? Certainly you aren't going to claim to be a Christian!
  13. 25 Aug '15 15:28
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d667Bb_iYA

    gays can get married now. they have gotten everything they asked for, right? all is right in the world.


    a gay couple can get married on sunday and fired on monday.
    in many states they can be refused loans, they can be denied service.
    there is a story about a pediatrician who refused to treat the sick ...[text shortened]... ke for a dog wedding (male and female obviously, anything different would be an affront to god)
    I believe that if you look long and hard, everyone is at some time discriminated against. We all tend to discriminate as to where we spend our money, or who we hire to service our needs. A lot of time it is just a comfort level with the provider or vendor.

    Many times it has to do with race, ethnicity, or apparent sexual preference. Suck it up. That is the real world, and governments can't legislate who or what people like.

    The reality is that most gay folks, unless they have an agenda will shop with and patronize other gays, thus discriminating against straight vendors and providers. The same is true of racial or ethnic shoppers. We have lots of "Soul Food" restaurants, or Middle Eastern restaurants, that are primarily patronized because they serve a particular ethnicity or race.

    Are those who patronize specialty ethnic shops, markets or restaurants discriminating against the other outlets that don't specialize? Of course they are, but in one case discrimination is alright, and in others it is not. The law has gone too far in ordering businesses to surrender their right that individual citizens are recognized to have, that of making choices.

    If you are really concerned that LGBT people don't have enough service providers, then you have identified a business opportunity. You could create a business, or even a business referral system like Angie's list, but specifically for LGBT folks looking for service providers. Do something positive, instead of whining about others, and attempting to diminish their freedom to choose.
  14. Standard member vivify
    rain
    25 Aug '15 15:37
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I believe that if you look long and hard, everyone is at some time discriminated against. We all tend to discriminate as to where we spend our money, or who we hire to service our needs. A lot of time it is just a comfort level with the provider or vendor.

    Many times it has to do with race, ethnicity, or apparent sexual preference. Suck it up. That is ...[text shortened]... g positive, instead of whining about others, and attempting to diminish their freedom to choose.
    A society can't function in a civilized way if discrimination on the basis of birth is allowed. Anyone is free to have whatever racist, sexist or other bigoted views they want. But they are not free to treat people with any less respect than they'd want for themselves.
  15. 25 Aug '15 15:48
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Excuse me???? Some people feel that blacks are inferior and should be shipped out of the country or at least denied service by businesses. You must be living under a rock. It is against the law to refuse to serve people who are not robbing you or in some way breaking the laws of the land when they enter your establishment. As for your comment:
    "Some peop ...[text shortened]... e the devil. Are you a devil worshiper? Certainly you aren't going to claim to be a Christian!
    Some people feel that blacks are inferior and should be shipped out of the country or at least denied service by businesses.

    I'm sure you would agree that we will never eradicate extreme or marginal beliefs, nor in America would we want to. We don't have thought police.

    It is against the law to refuse to serve people who are not robbing you or in some way breaking the laws of the land when they enter your establishment.

    Most merchants or service providers want to serve every customer possible, and expand their clientele. A few wish to specialize, and serve narrow or vertical markets. Shouldn't that be their right? For example, I may offer limited credit to some customers that are extremely trustworthy, and deny it to others based solely on my assessment of risk. Some customers are very irregular in their purchases, so after some time get less and less service, and eventually none.

    I've been asked to leave a Soul Food restaurant, in that I'm discouraging patronage by their target clientele. I do like grits and biscuits and gravy, but I found other places that served that fare without the attitude.

    Personally, I reserve the right to deny service to anyone for any reason. In reality, I seldom do. That's not why I was in business in the first place.