Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberRemoved
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    31 Dec '16 18:40
    Maine Required Childless Adults to Work to Get Food Stamps. Here’s What Happened.

    http://dailysignal.com/2016/02/08/maine-required-childless-adults-to-work-to-get-food-stamps-heres-what-happened/

    Sounds like a great idea... Agree or disagree?
  2. Standard membervivify
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    31 Dec '16 19:29
    "In Maine, all able-bodied adults without dependents in the food stamp program are now required to take a job, participate in training, or perform community service".

    Sounds good. As long as travel assistance is provided (like with public transportation), I'm all for it.
  3. Standard memberRemoved
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    31 Dec '16 20:00
    Originally posted by vivify
    "In Maine, all able-bodied adults without dependents in the food stamp program are now required to take a job, participate in training, or perform community service".

    Sounds good. As long as travel assistance is provided (like with public transportation), I'm all for it.
    I don't know, but I agree. The case load dropped dramatically.

    "In the first three months after Maine’s work policy went into effect, its caseload of able-bodied adults without dependents plummeted by 80 percent, falling from 13,332 recipients in Dec. 2014 to 2,678 in March 2015."

    I wonder why these people just would not work. Even just 6 hours a week.
  4. Joined
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    31 Dec '16 20:141 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Maine Required Childless Adults to Work to Get Food Stamps. Here’s What Happened.

    http://dailysignal.com/2016/02/08/maine-required-childless-adults-to-work-to-get-food-stamps-heres-what-happened/

    Sounds like a great idea... Agree or disagree?
    What's behind the mindset whereby individuals are unwilling to freely share basic needs to others such as food, shelter, medical care, etc.?

    The following should provide some insight:
    Parents and elementary school teachers have noticed that children reaching the
    age of five to six show a new attitude towards their peers. Compliance and indifference
    of four-year-old children change into aggression, touchiness, envy and greed. Most
    children outlive this acute conflict period without any consequences and by the age
    of seven their negative feelings give way to rather sociable ones: Not only do most
    children learn how to feel empathy but even how to share their peers’ success and
    joy. However, sometimes the experience of negative feelings becomes „fixed“ and
    continues to determine some children’s interaction with people. This may lead to
    the children’s unwillingness to share, in other words to the phenomenon of greed.


    http://www.existential-analysis.org/fileadmin/4editors/dokumente/GLE-Int/Forschung/The_phenomenon_of_greed.pdf
  5. Germany
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    31 Dec '16 20:35
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    What's behind the mindset whereby individuals are unwilling to freely share basic needs to others such as food, shelter, medical care, etc.?

    The following should provide some insight:
    Parents and elementary school teachers have noticed that children reaching the
    age of five to six show a new attitude towards their peers. Compliance and indiffe ...[text shortened]... nalysis.org/fileadmin/4editors/dokumente/GLE-Int/Forschung/The_phenomenon_of_greed.pdf
    Spite is a powerful motivator. Most people are, by nature, reasonably generous, but not towards people they feel are "undeserving." Americans are served a diet of propaganda leading them to believe that meager welfare benefits are abused en masse by lazy profiteers who use their welfare checks to buy drugs and alcohol.
  6. Joined
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    31 Dec '16 20:40
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Spite is a powerful motivator. Most people are, by nature, reasonably generous, but not towards people they feel are "undeserving." Americans are served a diet of propaganda leading them to believe that meager welfare benefits are abused en masse by lazy profiteers who use their welfare checks to buy drugs and alcohol.
    In oklahoma they had to pass a law so that food stamps cards could no longer be used at strip joints.
  7. Joined
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    31 Dec '16 21:10
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Spite is a powerful motivator. Most people are, by nature, reasonably generous, but not towards people they feel are "undeserving." Americans are served a diet of propaganda leading them to believe that meager welfare benefits are abused en masse by lazy profiteers who use their welfare checks to buy drugs and alcohol.
    Seems like beneath that "spite" lies greed and covetousness.

    That kind of propaganda does play a role, but if you probe deeper, they hate the idea of freely sharing with those who haven't "earned it (like they feel they did)". Seems like the propaganda mainly serves them to be able to "justify" the greed and covetousness which is really at work there.
  8. Standard membervivify
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    31 Dec '16 21:13
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I don't know, but I agree. The case load dropped dramatically.

    "In the first three months after Maine’s work policy went into effect, its caseload of able-bodied adults without dependents plummeted by 80 percent, falling from 13,332 recipients in Dec. 2014 to 2,678 in March 2015."

    I wonder why these people just would not work. Even just 6 hours a week.
    Why do you assume the drop was mostly due to refusal to work? Your link says that the adults were required to attend training or find a job: isn't it possible these requirements helped people find work, this removing their dependence on food stamps? After all, the article also says Maine has plenty of unskilled labor.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    31 Dec '16 21:32
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Spite is a powerful motivator. Most people are, by nature, reasonably generous, but not towards people they feel are "undeserving." Americans are served a diet of propaganda leading them to believe that meager welfare benefits are abused en masse by lazy profiteers who use their welfare checks to buy drugs and alcohol.
    So you have data that refutes that charge?
  10. Germany
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    31 Dec '16 22:101 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So you have data that refutes that charge?
    Sure. In Northern Europe, welfare benefits are vastly more generous than in the U.S. So much so, that one could stay at home, live on benefits, have great housing, world-class education for your kids and superb health care. How many people choose this lifestyle? Extremely few. There are even far fewer stay-at-home parents in e.g. Norway than in the U.S. Turns out that people like to do stuff rather than sit at home doing nothing even if they can live comfortably while unemployed. People are active and want to make a difference, and they like to get recognition from others in terms of social status, which unemployed people are generally lacking.
  11. SubscriberWajoma
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    31 Dec '16 22:23
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    What's behind the mindset whereby individuals are unwilling to freely share basic needs to others such as food, shelter, medical care, etc.?

    The following should provide some insight:
    Parents and elementary school teachers have noticed that children reaching the
    age of five to six show a new attitude towards their peers. Compliance and indiffe ...[text shortened]... nalysis.org/fileadmin/4editors/dokumente/GLE-Int/Forschung/The_phenomenon_of_greed.pdf
    For a kick off, greed is not necessarily a bad thing, at least not in the way Ctrl Left busybodies would like to make out i.e. greed is bad for everyone other than the person being greedy. They've got it around the wrong way, Greed is an excessive desire and excessive anything is not good by definition. But greed can be a great motivator. And the other problem is the subjective; 'excessive'. As evidenced by the last election many on the left have an excessive desire to be whiny bytches.

    ...but excessive? by whose standard?

    Almost any collector could be said to greedy, who really needs more than five Barbie dolls, but there are people out there that devote hours to tracking down and purchasing more and more Barbie dolls, they're greedy right. Now calm down Ctrl Left freaks, don't start dreaming up a maximum Barbie regulation or Barbie tax, that's not my point here.

    Other people have an excessive desire to be the fastest or jump the highest, they pursue these goals single mindedly, would you call this person greedy? would you like to hobble them in some way for being faster than others? (That was rhetorical BTW, I'm afraid that some Ctrl Freaks might answer in the affirmative)

    So if a few more kids had an excessive desire to go outside and build stuff instead of an excessive desire to sit on the couch and play video games that might not be a bad thing.
  12. Joined
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    31 Dec '16 22:27
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    For a kick off, greed is not necessarily a bad thing, at least not in the way Ctrl Left busybodies would like to make out i.e. greed is bad for everyone other than the person being greedy. They've got it around the wrong way, Greed is an excessive desire and excessive anything is not good by definition. But greed can be a great motivator. And the other proble ...[text shortened]... d of an excessive desire to sit on the couch and play video games that might not be a bad thing.
    Seems like you missed the context of my post and went off on a rant.

    Here it is again:
    "What's behind the mindset whereby individuals are unwilling to freely share basic needs to others such as food, shelter, medical care, etc.?"
  13. Zugzwang
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    31 Dec '16 22:281 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra to ThinkofOne
    Spite is a powerful motivator. Most people are, by nature, reasonably generous, but not towards people they feel are "undeserving." Americans are served a diet of propaganda leading them to believe that meager welfare benefits are abused en masse by lazy profiteers who use their welfare checks to buy drugs and alcohol.
    In the USA, racism strongly influences whom most Americans regard as 'undeserving' of aid.
    Many, if not most, middle-to-upper class white Americans don't object to helping poor
    white Americans, but they object much more to helping poor non-white Americans.

    I knew a conservative white American who could not afford health insurance at that time.
    He objected to the government providing health insurance to everyone who needed it
    on the grounds it could help 'undeserving' non-white people.
  14. Zugzwang
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    31 Dec '16 22:311 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra to Sonhouse
    Sure. In Northern Europe, welfare benefits are vastly more generous than in the U.S. So much so, that one could stay at home, live on benefits, have great housing, world-class education for your kids and superb health care. How many people choose this lifestyle? Extremely few. There are even far fewer stay-at-home parents in e.g. Norway than ...[text shortened]... ecognition from others in terms of social status, which unemployed people are generally lacking.
    In modern societies, most people are motivated to work (and should be motivated to work)
    *not* by their consuming fear of imminent starvation or catastrophic illness.
  15. Account suspended
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    31 Dec '16 22:331 edit
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    For a kick off, greed is not necessarily a bad thing, at least not in the way Ctrl Left busybodies would like to make out i.e. greed is bad for everyone other than the person being greedy. They've got it around the wrong way, Greed is an excessive desire and excessive anything is not good by definition. But greed can be a great motivator. And the other proble ...[text shortened]... d of an excessive desire to sit on the couch and play video games that might not be a bad thing.
    Was it not greed that was responsible for the so called financial crisis of 2008. Greed on every level? Greed of banks leveraging funds on massive debts, greedy mortgage companies selling homes to people that could not afford it, greedy householders buying properties that they could not hope to afford. In what sense has this greed been good? in what sense has this greed been a model for motivation?
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