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  1. Subscriberkmax87
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    18 Jul '17 05:37
    These two reports tell of the tragic death of an Australian woman, Justine Damon, gunned down in her pajamas by police responding to her 911 call.

    Does this incident underline the fact that cops are simply woefully trained to do their duty in the USA, and their hair trigger responses are not dictated by racial profiling per se but more by their own fear and unpreparedness when confronted by a situation that does not unfold in a textbook fashion?


    http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-woman-killed-in-police-shooting-in-minneapolis-reports-20170716-gxchas.html

    An Australian woman has been shot dead by police in the US city of Minneapolis in an incident in which the officers did not have their body cameras turned on.

    She was killed when two police officers responded to a 911 call about a possible assault in an alley behind a home about 11.30pm on Saturday, local time. One police officer fired their weapon, killing 40-year-old Sydney woman Justine Damond.


    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/one-down-justine-ruszczyk-damonds-last-moments-after-being-shot-dead-by-us-cop-mohamed-noor/news-story/a71620a44cb4e61bdaa087e5c69d8afd
    Ms Damond, 40, called police after hearing a possible assault taking place in an alley behind her Minneapolis home in what has been described as the safe, middle-class neighbourhood of Fulton.

    The police audio begins with the description of a “female screaming behind the building”, believed to be what Ms Damond told the dispatcher in her initial 911 call.

    Ms Damond, dressed in her pyjamas, reportedly approached the driver’s side window of police car when it arrived in the alley and officer Noor shot across his partner at Ms Damond more than once from the passenger seat
  2. Subscriberroma45
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    18 Jul '17 10:21
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    These two reports tell of the tragic death of an Australian woman, Justine Damon, gunned down in her pajamas by police responding to her 911 call.

    Does this incident underline the fact that cops are simply woefully trained to do their duty in the USA, and their hair trigger responses are not dictated by racial profiling per se but more by their own fear a ...[text shortened]... fficer Noor shot across his partner at Ms Damond more than once from the passenger seat [/quote]
    I wonder what race the shooter is?
    If he's black it will be swept under the carpet as an accident
    If he's white he will be accused of shooting at a black kid behind her
  3. Cape Town
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    18 Jul '17 12:16
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Does this incident underline the fact that cops are simply woefully trained to do their duty in the USA, and their hair trigger responses are not dictated by racial profiling per se but more by their own fear and unpreparedness when confronted by a situation that does not unfold in a textbook fashion?
    Facts that aren't facts can't be underlined.

    There can be no doubt whatsoever that race plays a part in police behaviour. To deny it is to pretend that all people are color-blind, an obvious fiction.

    Certainly, I would argue that police should not carry guns, and that if they do, they should be severely punished whenever they use (or even draw them) them without reasonable cause.
  4. Zugzwang
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    18 Jul '17 17:402 edits
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    These two reports tell of the tragic death of an Australian woman, Justine Damon, gunned down in her pajamas by police responding to her 911 call.

    Does this incident underline the fact that cops are simply woefully trained to do their duty in the USA, and their hair trigger responses are not dictated by racial profiling per se but more by their own fear a ...[text shortened]... fficer Noor shot across his partner at Ms Damond more than once from the passenger seat [/quote]
    I don't know of anyone who's claimed that *all* American police shootings must be motivated by racism.

    If Kmax87 wishes to deny that an evidently disproportionately high number of the victims
    of American police shootings are non-white (particularly black men) or to deny that racism
    could have influenced them, then he will need to cite evidence that's much more relevant
    and compelling than one white woman (an 'isolated incident', eh?) being shot by the police.

    White people often like to deny the common existence of racism against non-white people
    by dwelling upon the unusual cases where white people seem to have been similarly mistreated.
  5. Subscriberkmax87
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    18 Jul '17 23:383 edits
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    I don't know of anyone who's claimed that *all* American police shootings must be motivated by racism.

    If Kmax87 wishes to deny that an evidently disproportionately high number of the victims
    of American police shootings are non-white (particularly black men) or to deny that racism
    could have influenced them, then he will need to cite evidence that' ...[text shortened]...
    by dwelling upon the unusual cases where white people seem to have been similarly mistreated.
    Maybe rushing a police car in an alleyway isn't a good idea after reporting a disturbance to the police. Maybe if everyone while driving black just had their drivers license in their hand ready to show the officer when pulled over, instead of starting a rant about why they were pulled over, would still be driving. Maybe being cool-headed whenever a cop exercises their authority is not the only time to have your civil rights moment, might mean that at some point in time your local cops might calm the f down, maybe if you do the same thing over and over again and expect different outcomes you may be insane, maybe being in a perfect world starts by living in the world you've got, making adjustments and then working towards the world you want, just maybe....
  6. Zugzwang
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    18 Jul '17 23:571 edit
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Maybe rushing a police car in an alleyway isn't a good idea after reporting a disturbance to the police. Maybe if everyone while driving black just had their drivers license in their hand ready to show the officer when pulled over, instead of starting a rant about why they were pulled over, would still be driving. Maybe being cool-headed whenever a cop exerc ...[text shortened]... world you've got, making adjustments and then working towards the world you want, just maybe....
    Maybe Kmax87's another white man determined, however dishonesty, to keep denying
    that white people are racist. (Kmax87 did his utmost to minimize the racism in Australia's
    'White Australia' immigration policy.)

    Here's an article by Jamie Utt (a white man) on racism:
    http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/07/why-white-people-struggle-with-racism/

    "Here Are the Real Reasons Why We White People Struggle to Admit That Racism Still Exists"

    "I see my fellow White people so wrapped up in defending the idea that systemic racism doesn’t exist that
    we are unable to empathize with the real pain caused to people of Color by racism, both interpersonal and systemic."

    That defensiveness and absence of empathy seems almost universal among the white writers here.

    "Why are we so resistant to acknowledging the countless examples of our racial privilege?
    What do we risk by actually empathizing with people of Color and acknowledging how racial oppression plays out in our society?"

    "When someone calls us as White people out for racist behavior or language,
    we are almost never being accused of being card-carrying members of the KKK.
    Yet so many of us are stuck in a surface level, 1950s conception of racism where
    we can clearly identify it as wearing White hoods and burning crosses.
    But even then, racism was far more complex and insidious."

    "Racism is about the ways that virtually all of the systems in which we live
    (economic, educational, judicial, medical, and so on) were created to serve White people
    (particularly White, cisgender, straight men) while oppressing people of Color."

    "One of my favorite authors on the topic, Dr. Zeus Leonardo, lays out this distinction well,
    noting that Whiteness is something created by wealthy Europeans that subsumes all
    light-skinned European ethnicities into one identity.
    Why was Whiteness created? For social control: to allow wealthy White elites to unite
    poor and middle class Whites against people of Color."

    "White People Benefit Materially from Racism
    Therefore, most of us have an unacknowledged political and economic stake in maintaining White supremacy."

    "But benefitting from racist systems doesn’t mean that everything is magically easy for us.
    It just means that as hard as things are, they could always be worse.
    We could face the daily onslaught of overt and covert racism that impedes people of Color
    on top of all of our struggles."

    "White People Have an Emotional Stake in Denying White Supremacy
    Because that way, we can avoid dealing with how we’re complicit in its pervasiveness.
    Admitting that we’re acting in racist ways or supporting racist systems is terrifying. And it hurts.
    Scarier still is doing the deep emotional reflection to understand the ways that we may be truly racist deep down. "

    "Or that we are far more outraged by allegations of our own racism than by the everyday racism that destroys people’s lives?"

    How did Jamie Utt begin to unlearn his racism?

    "They asked me to quiet myself and listen to the voice of people of Color who described
    devastation caused by the everyday interpersonal and systemic racism.
    They challenged me to get in touch with my human capacity for empathy."

    Almost none of the white writers here (including the 'liberals' ) have shown any sincere
    willingness to listen respectfully to how non-white people are afflicted by everyday racism.

    "All of us as White people are offered a choice, then. Will we choose to live into our values and
    into our human capacity for empathic concern? Or will we invest in the alluring benefits of Whiteness?
    If we choose the former, then we have to resist our inclination to be defensive when talking about
    racism and our own complicity in its systems. We can’t pretend that we are simply “post-racial.'"
    --Jamie Utt
  7. Subscriberkmax87
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    19 Jul '17 00:213 edits
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Maybe Kmax87's another white man determined, however dishonesty, to keep denying
    that white people are racist. (Kmax87 did his utmost to minimize the racism in Australia's
    'White Australia' immigration policy)
    Maybe you know less about me than the detail you are unwilling to share about yourself. Maybe what Australia has taught me is that, you watch your back, and look out for number 1, because the world does not owe you a living and empathy will not put food on your table.

    Are non white people systematically discriminated against in countries that are predominantly white. Absolutely, no contest.

    But fixing that ingrained inequity, there's the rub. How many people have you convinced to your point of view by your arguments and debating techniques? How many people are swayed by your shaming and denigration? Then ask the question, to what extent has your articulation of the problem actually motivated people to a better understanding of how they can help improve matters. Ask yourself, in all the years of full frontal attack at people you often mischaracterise by going after the low hanging fruit of their lived experience or articulation of the same, or not built bridges for people to cross over to a better understanding of their fellow citizen, how have you engaged people to see your point of view? Then ask yourself, to what extent are you still part of the problem and not of the solution?
  8. Zugzwang
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    19 Jul '17 00:352 edits
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Maybe you know less about me than the detail you are unwilling to share about yourself. Maybe what Australia has taught me is that, you watch your back, and look out for number 1, because the world does not owe you a living and empathy will not put food on your table.

    Are non white people systematically discriminated against in countries that are predomi ...[text shortened]... ew? Then ask yourself, to what extent are you still part of the problem and not of the solution?
    I note with disdain that Kmax87 (who grew up in apartheid South Africa before his family moved to
    Australia) refuses to listen even to his fellow white man Jamie Utt criticizing whites' denial of racism.

    Kmax87 has directly benefitted all his life from his whiteness and, like almost all other white
    people, he evidently does not want to lose the power and privileges that whiteness gives him.
  9. SubscriberWajoma
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    19 Jul '17 03:09
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Maybe you know less about me than the detail you are unwilling to share about yourself. Maybe what Australia has taught me is that, you watch your back, and look out for number 1, because the world does not owe you a living and empathy will not put food on your table.

    Are non white people systematically discriminated against in countries that are predomi ...[text shortened]... ew? Then ask yourself, to what extent are you still part of the problem and not of the solution?
    Nailed it.
  10. Joined
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    19 Jul '17 04:47
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    These two reports tell of the tragic death of an Australian woman, Justine Damon, gunned down in her pajamas by police responding to her 911 call.

    Does this incident underline the fact that cops are simply woefully trained to do their duty in the USA, and their hair trigger responses are not dictated by racial profiling per se but more by their own fear a ...[text shortened]... fficer Noor shot across his partner at Ms Damond more than once from the passenger seat [/quote]
    How dare you question black lives matter? You must be a racist.
  11. Zugzwang
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    19 Jul '17 19:39
    http://www.startribune.com/attorney-reasonable-to-believe-officer-feared-ambush-when-he-shot-justine-damond/435415343/

    "Harrity's attorney: 'Reasonable' for officers to fear ambush before Justine Damond shooting.
    Officer Mohamed Noor fired once from squad as Damond approached."

    Matthew Harrity and Mohamed Noor (who's black) are the two American policemen in
    this case of the fatal shooting of Justine Damond, a white Australian woman.

    "On Tuesday the BCA released some information, based in part on an interview with
    Harrity, who said the two were responding at 11:30 p.m. to a call of a possible assault in
    the quiet Fulton neighborhood when he was startled by a “loud sound.” Damon, who
    was the 911 caller, approached Harrity in the driver’s side window of the squad car
    “immediately afterward,” according to the statement.
    Noor, who was in the passenger seat, then fired across his partner, striking Damond in the abdomen."
  12. Account suspended
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    19 Jul '17 20:00
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    These two reports tell of the tragic death of an Australian woman, Justine Damon, gunned down in her pajamas by police responding to her 911 call.

    Does this incident underline the fact that cops are simply woefully trained to do their duty in the USA, and their hair trigger responses are not dictated by racial profiling per se but more by their own fear a ...[text shortened]... fficer Noor shot across his partner at Ms Damond more than once from the passenger seat [/quote]
    https://archive.org/details/the-mathematics-of-mass-murder-in-dallas-archive

    Contains strong language and graphic scenes. Details police brutality against Americans.
  13. Zugzwang
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    19 Jul '17 20:241 edit
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie to Kmax87
    https://archive.org/details/the-mathematics-of-mass-murder-in-dallas-archive

    Contains strong language and graphic scenes. Details police brutality against Americans.
    What happened to Robbie Carrobie's recent declaration (now deleted from his profile) that he was quitting RHP forums?
  14. Joined
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    08 Aug '17 11:061 edit
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    These two reports tell of the tragic death of an Australian woman, Justine Damon, gunned down in her pajamas by police responding to her 911 call.

    Does this incident underline the fact that cops are simply woefully trained to do their duty in the USA, and their hair trigger responses are not dictated by racial profiling per se but more by their own fear a ...[text shortened]... fficer Noor shot across his partner at Ms Damond more than once from the passenger seat [/quote]
    I heard on the radio yesterday why this story soon left the headlines in the US.

    The guy who shot this woman was a Somalian. So we have a black Muslim man brought onto the police force in the name of inclusion shooting a white woman for no reason whatsoever.

    "Officer Mohamed Noor, who pulled the trigger and killed Justine Damond, is Somali-American. Damond was white."

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/503871001/
  15. Zugzwang
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    08 Aug '17 18:501 edit
    https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/24/16019440/justine-damond-police-shooting-race

    "When a police shooting victim is a white woman.
    The sympathetic reaction to Justine Damond’s death shows the relentless power of race in America."
    --German Lopez

    "The reaction to a police shooting sure looks different when the victim is a white woman."

    "The difference in reaction is alarming. But it’s not unexpected. The research suggests much
    of America really does react differently to tragedies involving white victims than black ones."

    "The headlines by some conservative outlets and pundits have also emphasized the
    officer’s race, ethnicity, and religion. Here is one Fox News headline, which focused
    on Noor’s national origin: “Somali immigrant cop Mohamed Noor, who shot Justine
    Damond, was 'highly celebrated' by Minneapolis mayor in 2015."

    "This is something I saw in my social media feed as well: the repeated insinuation that Noor
    was inherently violent and dangerous because he was black, an immigrant, and Muslim."

    "People are more likely to empathize with victims of the same race.
    One telling study came in the aftermath of 2005’s Hurricane Katrina, which devastated New Orleans.
    In a 2007 study, researchers found that people tended to believe that victims in racial
    outgroups suffered fewer “uniquely human” emotions like anguish, mourning, and remorse
    than victims in racial ingroups. And, in the aftermath of a natural disaster, that perception of
    fewer “uniquely human” emotions led participants to be less willing to help victims in racial outgroups."

    "Meanwhile, other research suggests that people generally hold more hostile views
    toward black Americans — ones that characterize even black children as dangerous."

    "One series of studies, released earlier this year, used various visual tests to see how
    people perceive the bodies of white and black men. The findings were consistent:
    When participants believed the man in the images was black, they generally saw the
    man as larger, more threatening, and potentially more harmful in an altercation than a
    white person. And they were more likely to say use of force was justified against the
    black men than the white men.

    Another study found that people tend to associate what the authors call “black-sounding names,
    ”like DeShawn and Jamal, with larger, more violent people than they do “white-sounding names,”
    like Connor and Garrett."

    "And the systemic biases also help explain why, even though white Americans are
    much less likely to be the victims of police, they may occasionally get much more
    sympathy from large segments of the public than black victims "

    This is everyday racism (which most white Americans like to deny) in the USA.
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