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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    06 Jul '13 17:05
    But U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, called Friday for the suspension of U.S. aid to Egypt's military, which exceeds $1 billion per year. "We cannot repeat the same mistakes that we made at other times in our history by supporting the removal of freely elected governments," the ranking member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services told CNN affiliate KNXV.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/06/world/meast/egypt-coup/index.html?hpt=hp_c2


    The people of the United States should not be providing military aid to a military using it to overthrow an elected government, jail its leaders, suspend its constitution, dissolve the upper house of its parliament, etc. etc. etc. I realize that the aid is primarily bribe money so the Egyptians play nice with the Israelis, but still at some point right is right and wrong is wrong.
  2. 06 Jul '13 17:16
    McCain is a moron, but even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Having said that, the only way I'd support taking away our funding from Egypt would be to stop all foreign aid. Why pick on Egypt because they got rid of Islamic extremists? Or course they may just be replacing it with even further wacked out people. That's why I'd like to see all foreign aid stopped. We have a real spending problem in the US.
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    06 Jul '13 17:20
    Originally posted by Eladar
    McCain is a moron, but even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Having said that, the only way I'd support taking away our funding from Egypt would be to stop all foreign aid. Why pick on Egypt because they got rid of Islamic extremists? Or course they may just be replacing it with even further wacked out people. That's why I'd like to see all foreign aid stopped. We have a real spending problem in the US.
    The "Islamic Extremists" are the elected representatives of the people of Egypt. The Constitution that got suspended got about 64% of the vote in a referendum in December 2012.

    The overall levels of foreign aid are a completely separate issue from whether the US should provide funding for militaries that overthrow elected governments.
  4. 06 Jul '13 17:26
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The "Islamic Extremists" are the elected representatives of the people of Egypt. The Constitution that got suspended got about 64% of the vote in a referendum in December 2012.

    The overall levels of foreign aid are a completely separate issue from whether the US should provide funding for militaries that overthrow elected governments.
    Elected representatives means nothing. You are an inconsistant hypocrite. Would you support the right of elected Nazis to rule Germany? Elected KKK members to rule the US?
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    06 Jul '13 17:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Elected representatives means nothing. You are an inconsistant hypocrite. Would you support the right of elected Nazis to rule Germany? Elected KKK members to rule the US?
    Yes unless and until they flagrantly violated the Natural Rights of the people.

    Is it your claim that the elected Egyptian government flagrantly violated the Natural Rights of the people who elected them? Is a military dictatorship more or less likely to do so?

    EDIT: Eladar: Elected representatives means nothing

    That is quite an admission.
  6. 06 Jul '13 17:40
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Yes unless and until they flagrantly violated the Natural Rights of the people.

    Is it your claim that the elected Egyptian government flagrantly violated the Natural Rights of the people who elected them? Is a military dictatorship more or less likely to do so?

    EDIT: Eladar: Elected representatives means nothing

    That is quite an admission.
    Violated the natural rights of the people? Did they raise taxes too high or something?
  7. 06 Jul '13 17:41
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Yes unless and until they flagrantly violated the Natural Rights of the people.

    Is it your claim that the elected Egyptian government flagrantly violated the Natural Rights of the people who elected them? Is a military dictatorship more or less likely to do so?

    EDIT: Eladar: Elected representatives means nothing

    That is quite an admission.
    Wow, OK you are OK with KKK members ruling the South and allowing the mass slaughter of those that would disagree with them. Way to go Natural Rights guy.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    06 Jul '13 17:44
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Wow, OK you are OK with KKK members ruling the South and allowing the mass slaughter of those that would disagree with them. Way to go Natural Rights guy.
    Non sequitur.
  9. 06 Jul '13 17:54
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Non sequitur.
    Oh yeah, as long as it isn't the people in power doing the killing (just letting the people who put them in power do it), then it is ok with you. It isn't the government taking away the rights, just evil people in society.

    Hypocrite. You wouldn't allow this to happen to certain people, but you have no problem with it happens to another. You politically correct hypocrite.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    06 Jul '13 18:02
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Oh yeah, as long as it isn't the people in power doing the killing (just letting the people who put them in power do it), then it is ok with you. It isn't the government taking away the rights, just evil people in society.

    Hypocrite. You wouldn't allow this to happen to certain people, but you have no problem with it happens to another. You politically correct hypocrite.
    You're deranged. I suggest you actually read my answer rather than having your preconceived ideas dictate what you think I would say.
  11. 06 Jul '13 20:00 / 1 edit
    Does anyone know the difference between Morsi and McCain? One is a representative of a crumbling despotic regime hell bent on imposing its will on the people and the other is the President of Egypt.

    I think it is hilarious that the only people left to defend GOP politicians like McCain are lefties.

    Pretty revealing.
  12. 07 Jul '13 00:47
    Has John suggested that the US send troops into Egypt yet? I'm just waiting to see his dinosaur face on the screen frothing at the mouth as he insists Obama just send in the troops.
  13. 07 Jul '13 01:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    But U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, called Friday for the suspension of U.S. aid to Egypt's military, which exceeds $1 billion per year. "We cannot repeat the same mistakes that we made at other times in our history by supporting the removal of freely elected governments," the ranking member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services told CNN affiliate ...[text shortened]... tians play nice with the Israelis, but still at some point right is right and wrong is wrong.
    I too agreed with McCain, and liked the conciseness/clarity of how he stated it.

    Too bad the majority in that "democracy" voted for a despot and for a religious fundamentalist Constitution oppressing the rights of the minority and robbing liberty. But that is what the majority wanted.

    Yet, some argue the election was not "truly" a democratic election. I do not necessarily agree with that assertion but here is a very short 1 minute clip giving that position.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lMjfmG_8CM
  14. 07 Jul '13 01:20 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    But U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, called Friday for the suspension of U.S. aid to Egypt's military, which exceeds $1 billion per year. "We cannot repeat the same mistakes that we made at other times in our history by supporting the removal of freely elected governments," the ranking member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services told CNN affiliate ...[text shortened]... tians play nice with the Israelis, but still at some point right is right and wrong is wrong.
    Again, I basically agree with McCain, and think the protesters/military maybe should have just waited to the next election, and let that play out.

    The majority of the Egyptian people apparently did get what they wanted I guess in the last election. The majority does not seem too concerned about the minority or liberty.
    Now in Egypt, we see what some are calling a second revolution. As supporters of democracy, we in the United States can take small comfort when an elected leader is replaced not by the ballot box but by the demands of the street. And, yet while we see the Egyptian military act on those demands, and feel uneasy about it, we should not ignore the deeper reality that is playing out in Egypt. President Mohammed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood acted in power as if they were the new authoritarians. Yes, he was elected; however, he was not anointed. And, he and his colleagues in the Muslim Brotherhood acted as if they had been-- choosing to seek control over governance. Rather than be inclusive, Morsi appointed mostly members of the Muslim Brotherhood and sought to rule by decree, ensure that the new constitution would be written only by Islamists, prosecute journalists that "insulted" the president, remove judges who opposed him, and ignore the economic needs of the country.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/07/05/dennis-ross-on-democracy-and-egypt/2489935/

    However, I do not see how you can blame Morsi so much for the economic problems, as it was and is the protests that devastated the number one industry tourism. Moreover, a vast majority voted for the Islamist sharia Constitution.
  15. 07 Jul '13 01:25
    Originally posted by moon1969
    I too agreed with McCain, and liked the conciseness/clarity of how he stated it.

    Too bad the majority in that "democracy" voted for a despot and for a religious fundamentalist Constitution oppressing the rights of the minority and robbing liberty. But that is what the majority wanted.

    Yet, some argue the election was not "truly" a democratic electi ...[text shortened]... very short 1 minute clip giving that position.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lMjfmG_8CM
    Does it almost make you want to vote for him?

    I have to say, I've never been so glad that he lost the election than I am now.