Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 11 Sep '13 15:29
    McCain: Rebels fighting Assad feel abandoned by US

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. John McCain said Wednesday he worries that the cause of rebels fighting Syria's President Bashar Assad has been obscured in the rapid-fire military and diplomatic events following a chemical weapons attack near Damascus.

    "I feel very badly for my friends in the Free Syrian Army today," McCain said.

    The Arizona Republican said that he is not against negotiating to defuse the chemical weapons issue, but he also said, "There's nothing that will drive Syrians more into the hands of extremists than to feel they have been abandoned by the West."

    One of the persistent questions about U.S. policy in war-ravaged Syria is to what extent the terrorist network al-Qaida is involved in the efforts to end Assad's rule. McCain said President Barack Obama should have acted more forcefully against Assad many months ago.

    McCain said he is concerned that the Russian plan for securing Syria's chemical weapons could be a "rope-a-dope" delaying tactic. But he added that it should take only a few days for the U.S. to determine whether the proposal is serious and workable.

    "Put me down as extremely skeptical" about the Russian plan, he said, although McCain said Washington should not reject it out of hand.

    The GOP's 2008 presidential candidate also said that should the Russian proposal fall apart, it could actually help Obama's struggle to win congressional support for a limited military strike against Syria. He said that's because the failure of diplomacy could bolster Obama's argument that a U.S. attack was a necessary course of action.

    McCain spoke at a breakfast sponsored by the Wall Street Journal, the morning after Obama used a nationally broadcast speech to seek public support for military action.

    http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/McCain-Rebels-fighting-Assad-feel-abandoned-by-US-4804516.php
  2. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    11 Sep '13 16:38
    Originally posted by moon1969
    [quote][b]McCain: Rebels fighting Assad feel abandoned by US

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. John McCain said Wednesday he worries that the cause of rebels fighting Syria's President Bashar Assad has been obscured in the rapid-fire military and diplomatic events following a chemical weapons attack near Damascus.

    "I feel very badly for my friends in the Fre ...[text shortened]... s/politics/article/McCain-Rebels-fighting-Assad-feel-abandoned-by-US-4804516.php[/b]
    The only thing Johnny McCain wants is another war, and another 100,000 boots on the ground. McCain wants to solve all international disputes with battle tactics from the 1940's. As a former POW, I thought he could see the stupidity of this line of thinking, but you just can't fix stupid.
  3. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    11 Sep '13 16:48
    Originally posted by bill718
    The only thing Johnny McCain wants is another war, and another 100,000 boots on the ground. McCain wants to solve all international disputes with battle tactics from the 1940's. As a former POW, I thought he could see the stupidity of this line of thinking, but you just can't fix stupid.
    The prevailing wisdom seems to call for "no boots on the ground", but there is an alternative view based on experience both negative (Rwanda) and positive (Mali): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10301957/Only-ground-troops-will-end-bloodshed-in-Syria-says-commander-of-UN-during-Rwandan-genocide.html
  4. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    11 Sep '13 16:51
    Originally posted by moon1969

    http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/McCain-Rebels-fighting-Assad-feel-abandoned-by-US-4804516.php
    The USA has basically lied through its teeth to the opposition at every step. Heck, Assad got Charlie Rose while Idriss keeps being refused permission to visit Washington. Then again, it was pointed out that the President engaged in killing Muslims in Yemen, Pakistan and Afghanistan can hardly be expected to care about saving Muslim lives in Syria. He doesn't care and he never did.
  5. 11 Sep '13 17:41
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    The USA has basically lied through its teeth to the opposition at every step. Heck, Assad got Charlie Rose while Idriss keeps being refused permission to visit Washington. Then again, it was pointed out that the President engaged in killing Muslims in Yemen, Pakistan and Afghanistan can hardly be expected to care about saving Muslim lives in Syria. He doesn't care and he never did.
    Half of the Republican Party think he is a Muslim (born in Kenya).
  6. 11 Sep '13 18:06
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Half of the Republican Party think he is a Muslim (born in Kenya).
    Oh please they need a war for the arms industry to flourish.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Sep '13 20:25
    This is the same dynamic that made Vietnam turn Communist.
  8. 12 Sep '13 00:31
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    This is the same dynamic that made Vietnam turn Communist.
    If there was a poll taken, I wonder how many US citizens would rather have Putin as president than Obama.
  9. 12 Sep '13 02:00
    Originally posted by moon1969
    [quote][b]McCain: Rebels fighting Assad feel abandoned by US

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. John McCain said Wednesday he worries that the cause of rebels fighting Syria's President Bashar Assad has been obscured in the rapid-fire military and diplomatic events following a chemical weapons attack near Damascus.

    "I feel very badly for my friends in the Fre ...[text shortened]... s/politics/article/McCain-Rebels-fighting-Assad-feel-abandoned-by-US-4804516.php[/b]
    I can't believe that crinkled up old man is still functional. He must be 103.
  10. 12 Sep '13 02:42
    Originally posted by bill718
    The only thing Johnny McCain wants is another war, and another 100,000 boots on the ground. McCain wants to solve all international disputes with battle tactics from the 1940's. As a former POW, I thought he could see the stupidity of this line of thinking, but you just can't fix stupid.
    It is rare when I agree with you, and this is one of them. I'll add to it that McCain wants to repeat the mistakes of the past, presuming that military aid leads to a friendly regime later on. This has proved almost universally wrong.

    Of course the obvious is that our national debt says we can't afford more wars, no matter how justified.
  11. 12 Sep '13 02:50
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Half of the Republican Party think he is a Muslim (born in Kenya).
    I don't know where he was born, or if he really believes in and practices any religion. His young religious instruction was Islam in Indonesia via his stepfather. Later on his grandparents probably tried to make him Christian, but for 25 years he sat in Jeremiah Wright's pews, where he was inundated with black identity politics, and only a barely recognizable resemblance to Christianity.

    I suspect that most Republicans are somewhat puzzled about him, and are just waiting for his term to expire.
  12. 12 Sep '13 10:43
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    The USA has basically lied through its teeth to the opposition at every step. Heck, Assad got Charlie Rose while Idriss keeps being refused permission to visit Washington. Then again, it was pointed out that the President engaged in killing Muslims in Yemen, Pakistan and Afghanistan can hardly be expected to care about saving Muslim lives in Syria. He doesn't care and he never did.
    I agree with your assessment. I wonder what you think the way forward is for the US in this matter. We did airstrikes in Libya and helped get rid of Gaddafi and look at that place now. It's a hot mess. The politicians keep saying "No boots on the ground". I personally find that abhorrent. Are Syrian lives worth less than American lives? Yet what are we to do? We saw in Iraq and Afghanistan that sending in the troops and leaving them there long enough to get the job done is hugely unpopular, not just in America, but throughout the world. In fact, we didn't leave them long enough in Iraq and we won't be leaving them long enough in Afghanistan. Who else is going to send in troops to help out? The only nations with enough force to help out are on Assad's side.

    There's another problem. The US supported Saddam in the war against Iran. They supported the Taliban in the war against Russia etc etc. Americans have woken up to the fact that our policies haven't been the best for us or for the people we're supposed to be helping. Now in a battle where there seems to be no good side to choose (atrocities have been committed by rebels too) many Americans are thinking it might be better to choose no side at all.
  13. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    12 Sep '13 11:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I agree with your assessment. I wonder what you think the way forward is for the US in this matter. We did airstrikes in Libya and helped get rid of Gaddafi and look at that place now. It's a hot mess. The politicians keep saying "No boots on the ground". I personally find that abhorrent. Are Syrian lives worth less than American lives? Yet what are we by rebels too) many Americans are thinking it might be better to choose no side at all.
    Russia, still fighing the Cold War, sees an opportunity to seize the initiative in the Middle East. Putin's already calling the shots and reframing the narrative to suit the needs of his client state (Syria) (see the NYT). It's old-fashioned realpolitik. Obama doesn't seem capable of handling Putin's tough love.

    Of course it's darkly hilarious to compare Putin's NYT op-ed urging restraint in Syria:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html

    with his 1999 op-ed calling for targeted strikes in Chechnya:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/14/opinion/why-we-must-act.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    Anyhow, choosing no side at all will simply leave you out in the cold.
  14. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    12 Sep '13 12:15
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Russia, still fighing the Cold War, sees an opportunity to seize the initiative in the Middle East. Putin's already calling the shots and reframing the narrative to suit the needs of his client state (Syria) (see the NYT). It's old-fashioned realpolitik. Obama doesn't seem capable of handling Putin's tough love.

    Of course it's darkly hilario ...[text shortened]... anted=all&src=pm

    Anyhow, choosing no side at all will simply leave you out in the cold.
    Putin is making Obama look like a feckless boob. It's just sad.
  15. 12 Sep '13 12:30
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I don't know where he was born, or if he really believes in and practices any religion. His young religious instruction was Islam in Indonesia via his stepfather. Later on his grandparents probably tried to make him Christian, but for 25 years he sat in Jeremiah Wright's pews, where he was inundated with black identity politics, and only a barely recogn ...[text shortened]... most Republicans are somewhat puzzled about him, and are just waiting for his term to expire.
    No, it's true, look at the data. About half of Americans who identify themselves as Republican believe that the President is a Muslim.