Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    18 Mar '15 17:17
    Got this email from J Street today:

    Dear sh76:

    Benjamin Netanyahu’s victory is a deep disappointment to all who hoped that Israel might choose a new direction for the country in yesterday’s election.

    The Prime Minister’s renunciation of the two-state solution and resort to a campaign grounded in fear and tinged with racism successfully moved 150,000 votes from other right-wing parties into the Likud column in the campaign’s final days. But we fear that the cost to Israel in the long-run will be steep in terms of support here in the United States and internationally.

    The Prime Minister’s outrageous statements in the campaign’s final days may have pushed him from 19 percent in the polls before the election to 23 percent on election night and cemented his position as the leader of Israel's right wing, but this was not a broad mandate in support of the direction in which the Prime Minister is leading. Seventy-two percent of Israelis on the eve of the election felt the country is headed in the wrong direction, and only one-third of Israel’s voters supported the hard-right represented by Likud, Naftali Bennett and Avigdor Lieberman, a number roughly comparable to last election. Even in the next Knesset, the blocs of the center-left and of the right wing will continue to be evenly balanced.

    Without question, we respect Israel’s democracy and the outcome of the election. We celebrate the vibrancy of debate and dissent in Israel over essential matters that was on full display during the campaign. And – contrary to the Prime Minister’s panicked attack on the participation of Arab citizens in the election – we view their increased participation in this year’s election as a positive sign about the strength of Israeli democracy.

    None of that can change our core belief, however, that the policies that the Prime Minister articulated in order to win – outright rejection of the two-state solution and territorial compromise – should and will be rejected by the international community, including the United States. Sadly, the results of this election will only deepen Israel’s growing isolation.

    The manner in which the Prime Minister secured his victory – shredding the broad bipartisanship that underpins American political support for Israel and preying on fear and racism at home – also demonstrated that he willingly put his own political interests before his concern for Israel’s relationship with the United States and his commitment to Israel’s democratic character.

    Moving forward, J Street will be unwavering in making the case that Israel’s security and survival as the democratic homeland of the Jewish people require a change in course, recognizing that the need for change is ultimately a matter for the citizens of Israel to debate in the years ahead.
    Here, in the United States, J Street, however, has a clear role to play. We will stand up strongly and proudly in American political and Jewish communal debates for an end to occupation, for a two-state solution and for an Israel that is committed to its core democratic principles and Jewish values.

    We will speak out on behalf of the majority of American supporters of Israel – Jewish and not – who support a two-state solution and oppose moves to limit the rights of any Israeli citizens or to deny the collective right of the Palestinian people to self-determination in a state of their own.

    Faced with a return to power of a Prime Minister who has publicly demonstrated that he does not share those beliefs, we will advocate strongly that the American Jewish community must maintain and even more actively promote its commitment to the core principles and policies which have been bedrocks of the US-Israel relationship for decades.

    We're counting on your support as we continue that work.

    - Jeremy Ben-Ami



    Amen
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
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    18 Mar '15 17:31
    Originally posted by sh76
    Got this email from J Street today:

    Dear sh76:

    Benjamin Netanyahu’s victory is a deep disappointment to all who hoped that Israel might choose a new direction for the country in yesterday’s election.

    The Prime Minister’s renunciation of the two-state solution and resort to a campaign grounded in fear and tinged with racism successfully moved 150 ...[text shortened]...
    We're counting on your support as we continue that work.

    - Jeremy Ben-Ami



    Amen
    Good luck with that. I'm sure the Republican Congress is on board.
  3. Standard memberbill718
    Enigma
    Seattle
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    19 Mar '15 21:241 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Got this email from J Street today:

    Dear sh76:

    Benjamin Netanyahu’s victory is a deep disappointment to all who hoped that Israel might choose a new direction for the country in yesterday’s election.

    The Prime Minister’s renunciation of the two-state solution and resort to a campaign grounded in fear and tinged with racism successfully moved 150 ...[text shortened]...
    We're counting on your support as we continue that work.

    - Jeremy Ben-Ami



    Amen
    Sh76 - Watch what you say, they'll be calling you a radical,
    a Liberal, Oh fanatical, criminal... Super Tramp - Breakfast in America 1979 🙂
  4. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
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    19 Mar '15 21:37
    Originally posted by bill718
    Sh76 - Watch what you say, they'll be calling you a radical,
    a Liberal, Oh fanatical, criminal... Super Tramp - Breakfast in America 1979 🙂
    shredding the broad bipartisanship that underpins American political support for Israel and preying on fear and racism at home


    Useful reminder that there are Jews, nay Zionists, who reject the racism and avoidable violence by which Netanyahu clings to power and who are open to seeking political solutions in which Palestinians also are seen to have human rights.
  5. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
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    20 Mar '15 01:42
    Originally posted by sh76
    Got this email from J Street today:

    Dear sh76:

    Benjamin Netanyahu’s victory is a deep disappointment to all who hoped that Israel might choose a new direction for the country in yesterday’s election.

    The Prime Minister’s renunciation of the two-state solution and resort to a campaign grounded in fear and tinged with racism successfully moved 150 ...[text shortened]...
    We're counting on your support as we continue that work.

    - Jeremy Ben-Ami



    Amen
    I would say that this letter expresses "sour grapes" typical of losing politicians. The attack of the majority Netanyahu won, is typical of losers, either in the American two party system, or in the parliamentary system. The system required him to win more seats than anyone else, and be able to form a coalition. If that isn't satisfactory, then change the system rather than rag on it, because you lost.

    Netanyahu told the truth, and a nation that doesn't survive, doesn't get a chance to do all the goody things leftists want done.
  6. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    20 Mar '15 15:211 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I would say that this letter expresses "sour grapes" typical of losing politicians. The attack of the majority Netanyahu won, is typical of losers, either in the American two party system, or in the parliamentary system. The system required him to win more seats than anyone else, and be able to form a coalition. If that isn't satisfactory, then change th ...[text shortened]... nation that doesn't survive, doesn't get a chance to do all the goody things leftists want done.
    Netanyahu probably did tell substantially the truth regarding Iran (give or take some hyperbole here and there), but there's no excuse for him not being serious about a two state solution, given that there's no other reasonable option. There's also no excuse for his racist behavior on election day - trying to get out his base by warning that the "Arabs" are voting in droves. We would never tolerate an American politician warning that the "blacks" are voting in droves so you should get and and vote.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
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    20 Mar '15 16:08
    Originally posted by sh76
    Netanyahu probably did tell substantially the truth regarding Iran (give or take some hyperbole here and there), but there's no excuse for him not being serious about a two state solution, given that there's no other reasonable option. There's also no excuse for his racist behavior on election day - trying to get out his base by warning that the "Arabs" are vot ...[text shortened]... erican politician warning that the "blacks" are voting in droves so you should get and and vote.
    They use similar rhetoric about Mexicans.
  8. Joined
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    20 Mar '15 16:18
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    They use similar rhetoric about Mexicans.
    But the Mexicans in the US are actually illegal aliens and have no right to vote.
  9. The Catbird's Seat
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    20 Mar '15 21:27
    Originally posted by sh76
    Netanyahu probably did tell substantially the truth regarding Iran (give or take some hyperbole here and there), but there's no excuse for him not being serious about a two state solution, given that there's no other reasonable option. There's also no excuse for his racist behavior on election day - trying to get out his base by warning that the "Arabs" are vot ...[text shortened]... erican politician warning that the "blacks" are voting in droves so you should get and and vote.
    There is a simple, almost too simple reason why a "two State solution" will not work. Right of return. Right of return combined with a sizeable Palestinian State would spell the end of Israel, even if temporarily violent attacks on Israel were suspended (for how long?) As I pointed out in another thread, Gaza is a failed experiment in giving up land for peace.

    Actually, one can simply read the charters of Hezbolla, and Hamas to see what the Palestinian agenda is, and can look at previous agreements supposedly leading to a two State solution. The ones shattering previous so called solutions were the Palestinians.

    The reality is that Palestinians living in current Israel, are far better off than those living under Syrian, Saudi, Lebanese or Egyptian rule.

    It is common knowledge in America that the Democratic party is dedicated to getting blacks to vote in numbers, sometimes multiple times. Such a warning would not be necessary here, and would not be racist if the warning were true.
  10. The Catbird's Seat
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    20 Mar '15 21:29
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    They use similar rhetoric about Mexicans.
    How many illegal Mexican immigrants are in the US already, and how many more try to crash the border every night? It isn't rhetoric when it is the truth.
  11. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
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    20 Mar '15 21:321 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    There is a simple, almost too simple reason why a "two State solution" will not work. Right of return. Right of return combined with a sizeable Palestinian State would spell the end of Israel, even if temporarily violent attacks on Israel were suspended (for how long?) As I pointed out in another thread, Gaza is a failed experiment in giving up land for ...[text shortened]... s. Such a warning would not be necessary here, and would not be racist if the warning were true.
    Gaza is a failed experiment in giving up land for peace.
    Gaza is a modern day concentration camp, entirely under Israeli control, in which 1.5 million refugees are penned without prospects. Netanyahu still considers the Palestinians have too much scope for action and in the West Bank is modelling a more extreme form of apartheid which will probably be extended to Gaza in due course.

    Worth remembering that a Palestinian is an Israeli who is not a Jew, while an Israeli is a Jewish Palestinian. The labels are political. Netanyahu and his kind are already discussing ethnic cleansing of the remaining Israeli Arabs and restricting citizenship more completely to people of Jewish ethnicity. He regards the participation of Israeli Arabs in Israeli political life as a form of subversion and made an issue of that in the recent election.
  12. The Catbird's Seat
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    20 Mar '15 21:33
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Gaza is a failed experiment in giving up land for peace.
    Gaza is a modern day concentration camp, entirely under Israeli control, in which 1.5 million refugees are penned without prospects. Netanyahu still considers the Palestinians have too much scope for action and in the West Bank is modelling a more extreme form of apartheid which will probably be extended to Gaza in due course.
    The close monitoring hasn't stopped the rocket fire from Gaza.
  13. Standard memberfinnegan
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    20 Mar '15 21:37
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The close monitoring hasn't stopped the rocket fire from Gaza.
    Room for improvement has been noted by Netanyahu, as I said above.
  14. The Catbird's Seat
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    20 Mar '15 21:45
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Room for improvement has been noted by Netanyahu, as I said above.
    Apparently, to reasonable people, necessary improvements.
  15. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
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    20 Mar '15 21:49
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Apparently, to reasonable people, necessary improvements.
    In so far as apartheid in the West Bank appears preferable to reasonable people, ...

    Obviously, unreasonable people like myself think Palestinians have human rights which the Israelis are trampling over and it is hard to comprehend why the USA finds it appropriate to fund their aggression so generously, not only with direct military and financial support but also by bribing their neighbours to comply.
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