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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 02 Dec '13 00:55
    Feminism stands in lockstep with abortion on demand, but when that process is used to systematically commit genocide on females, can they still be so committed.

    In China, and other places, abortion of females is very common. What is to blame? State regulation of family size? Should the use of ultrasounds be limited, so that gender ID isn't easily established until late term?
  2. 02 Dec '13 01:45
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Feminism stands in lockstep with abortion on demand, but when that process is used to systematically commit genocide on females, can they still be so committed.

    In China, and other places, abortion of females is very common. What is to blame? State regulation of family size? Should the use of ultrasounds be limited, so that gender ID isn't easily established until late term?
    Feminism is about left winged politics and not about female rights. That is why there was no outcry regarding monsters like Dr. Gosnell. Sure he was targeting black poor women to mistreat them and even kill a few, but he was on the same progressive team as they since he preformed abortions.
  3. 02 Dec '13 04:55
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Feminism stands in lockstep with abortion on demand, but when that process is used to systematically commit genocide on females, can they still be so committed.

    In China, and other places, abortion of females is very common. What is to blame? State regulation of family size? Should the use of ultrasounds be limited, so that gender ID isn't easily established until late term?
    The culprit is a cultural preference for boys, which the Feminist movement is hopefully trying to address.
  4. 02 Dec '13 08:32
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Feminism stands in lockstep with abortion on demand, but when that process is used to systematically commit genocide on females, can they still be so committed.

    In China, and other places, abortion of females is very common. What is to blame? State regulation of family size? Should the use of ultrasounds be limited, so that gender ID isn't easily established until late term?
    you make it sound like feminism is about abortion.
    you make it sound like "feminists" (your distorted view anyway) should somehow be more offended that female fetuses are aborted than male ones, as if female lives are more valuable than males'.



    maybe you should understand better what feminism is about. what you are talking about is way off
  5. 02 Dec '13 09:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    you make it sound like feminism is about abortion.
    you make it sound like "feminists" (your distorted view anyway) should somehow be more offended that female fetuses are aborted than male ones, as if female lives are more valuable than males'.



    maybe you should understand better what feminism is about. what you are talking about is way off
    The problem is also economic, for example in India, the father pays a dowry price to the parents of the groom (its assumed that everyone will get married to a person of the opposite sex at some point) which its illegal to demand but is an integral part of the wedding arrangements, so imagine if you have five daughters? The consequence is that if you know the gender of the unborn child, they may choose to abort because of social convenience, in fact, even in the US, this is by far the greatest reason for abortions which at its base level is nothing more than a form of materialism.

    'Economics is a monster', an American professor in Glasgow once told me and I believe him.

    From the New York Times :

    An average of one dowry death is reported every 77 minutes according to the National Crime Record Bureau and victim support groups say complaints of dowry harassment are rising, fueled by a rising climate of consumerism.

    "Everyone is becoming more and more westernized - they want expensive clothes, they want the consumer objects which are constantly advertised on television. A dowry is seen as an easy way to get them," said Varsha Jha, an official with the Delhi Commission for Women.

    Although the giving and taking of dowry is banned here under legislation that threatens a five-year jail term, activists describe the law as "ornamental" and point out that it is almost never imposed. Dowry negotiations remain an integral part of wedding arrangements, although, to avoid legal complications, the payments are often referred to as wedding gifts.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/22/world/asia/22iht-dowry.3246644.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
  6. 02 Dec '13 13:03
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    you make it sound like feminism is about abortion.
    you make it sound like "feminists" (your distorted view anyway) should somehow be more offended that female fetuses are aborted than male ones, as if female lives are more valuable than males'.



    maybe you should understand better what feminism is about. what you are talking about is way off
    Perhaps you can explain.
  7. 02 Dec '13 13:07
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    The problem is also economic, for example in India, the father pays a dowry price to the parents of the groom (its assumed that everyone will get married to a person of the opposite sex at some point) which its illegal to demand but is an integral part of the wedding arrangements, so imagine if you have five daughters? The consequence is that if you ...[text shortened]... ts.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/22/world/asia/22iht-dowry.3246644.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
    An older gent and I were breakfasting in a local Albanian restaurant. The 30 year old waitress was asked by him what her bride price was in Albania a dozen year earlier. It amounted to some livestock, I forget how many sheep and goats.

    My pal persisted and asked her what her 20 year old sister's bride price would be. She cooly replied a Lexus 450 payable to her not her father.

    What westernization does.
  8. 02 Dec '13 13:09
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    The culprit is a cultural preference for boys, which the Feminist movement is hopefully trying to address.
    Of course. The male child in most cultures will carry the family name, whereas the female takes the name of her husband on marriage.
  9. 02 Dec '13 13:18
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Of course. The male child in most cultures will carry the family name, whereas the female takes the name of her husband on marriage.
    Yes, but in the end they wind up with everything whether the woman stays married or leaves her husband.

    So in a way it all evens out.
  10. 02 Dec '13 14:20
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Perhaps you can explain.
    explain that feminism has nothing to do with being outraged that more "girls" get aborted than "boys"? explain that if a woman asks for the right to choose, she will demand that right be revoked if another woman aborts only girls?


    a similar situation to what you said would be if feminists asked for equal pay for women (which is actually something feminists want) and then complain that some women use that money to buy pink dresses.
  11. 02 Dec '13 14:24
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Of course. The male child in most cultures will carry the family name, whereas the female takes the name of her husband on marriage.
    It's not just about the name by any means.

    In China it's largely about the one child restriction. Boys are seen as being more able to actually grow up and help the family financially and well, physically.

    Not only that, but often it is cultural custom that in a marriage the woman's family pays for the wedding.

    So if a family has a boy they have someone who will stereotypically help the family whereas a girl will cost them a lavish wedding later on.

    I think culturally these things have to change and then we'll see less of a preference of one gender over another.
  12. 02 Dec '13 15:39
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Perhaps you can explain.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
  13. 02 Dec '13 16:16
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    In China it's largely about the one child restriction. Boys are seen as being more able to actually grow up and help the family financially and well, physically.
    That is only a small part of it that has exacerbated the problem in some areas. Even before the one child policy, there was a strong preference for boys, and even before the availability of abortion there was infanticide.
    There were also other practices such as giving away the girls to be servants.
    Even in India where there is no one child policy there is an imbalance in the number of boys and girls that are brought up.

    May I recommend an excellent series of videos on the subject:
    http://oyc.yale.edu/molecular-cellular-and-developmental-biology/mcdb-150#sessions

    Have a look at chapter 15 in particular, but I highly recommend the whole course.
    Its free and available on youtube.
  14. 02 Dec '13 16:44
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That is only a small part of it that has exacerbated the problem in some areas. Even before the one child policy, there was a strong preference for boys, and even before the availability of abortion there was infanticide.
    There were also other practices such as giving away the girls to be servants.
    Even in India where there is no one child policy there ...[text shortened]... r 15 in particular, but I highly recommend the whole course.
    Its free and available on youtube.
    I may take a look at that - it does look interesting.

    I'm sorry that I was suggesting that the one child policy was the primary thing and it definitely isn't necessarily for sure. This does exacerbate it for sure though.

    I definitely agree with your post.
  15. 02 Dec '13 20:51
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That is only a small part of it that has exacerbated the problem in some areas. Even before the one child policy, there was a strong preference for boys, and even before the availability of abortion there was infanticide.
    There were also other practices such as giving away the girls to be servants.
    Even in India where there is no one child policy there ...[text shortened]... r 15 in particular, but I highly recommend the whole course.
    Its free and available on youtube.
    Abortion vs. infantacide.

    Two sides of the same coin.