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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    21 Feb '14 16:04 / 1 edit
    Those dirty old Democrats are at it again, trying to raise the minim wage, how dare they! Interesting that no one raises an eyebrow as executive pay has gone up 127 times faster than worker pay in the last 30 years, but let an $8.00 an hr. clerk ask for a small raise and they're called SOCIALISTS.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/minimum-wage-debate-prods-u-050100638.html;_ylt=A0SO8yaGdwdTqB8ASy1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0MDQxdTIwBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDM1MV8x

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html
  2. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    21 Feb '14 16:10
    Originally posted by bill718
    Those dirty old Democrats are at it again, trying to raise the minim wage, how dare they! Interesting that no one raises an eyebrow as executive pay has gone up over 300% in the last 14 years, but let an $8.00 an hr. clerk ask for a small raise and they're called SOCIALISTS.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/minimum-wage-debate-prods-u-050100638.html;_ylt=A0SO8yaGdwdTqB8ASy1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0MDQxdTIwBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDM1MV8x
    The government has no business mandating what someone is allowed to sell their own labor for, and the purpose of a business is to make a profit, not provide someone a wage that you deem is enough.

    But you don't understand these things, because you're a socialist.
  3. 21 Feb '14 16:18
    Originally posted by bill718
    Those dirty old Democrats are at it again, trying to raise the minim wage, how dare they! Interesting that no one raises an eyebrow as executive pay has gone up 127 times faster than worker pay in the last 30 years, but let an $8.00 an hr. clerk ask for a small raise and they're called SOCIALISTS.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/minimum-wage-debate-prods- ...[text shortened]... R2dGlkA1ZJUDM1MV8x

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html
    Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

    The government should not mandate what consenting adults can and cannot do unless the actions hurt someone else?
  4. 21 Feb '14 17:02
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    The government has no business mandating what someone is allowed to sell their own labor for, and the purpose of a business is to make a profit, not provide someone a wage that you deem is enough.

    But you don't understand these things, because you're a socialist.
    why dont you address the disparity between executive pay and workers pay?
  5. 21 Feb '14 17:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why dont you address the disparity between executive pay and workers pay?
    How about addressing the disparity between government workers and the private sector?

    When you work for the government, you don't have to turn a profit and Obama just writes Executive Orders to give everyone pay increases courtesy of the American tax payer. Entitlements are the best of the best as well.

    Now if you really want to live large, try going to the richest city in the US which is Washington DC. That is where all the money is jack.
  6. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    21 Feb '14 18:03
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why dont you address the disparity between executive pay and workers pay?
    Robbie- Don't waste your breath (or keystrokes) these people don't like to talk about these things
  7. 21 Feb '14 19:17
    Originally posted by bill718
    Robbie- Don't waste your breath (or keystrokes) these people don't like to talk about these things
    I'm happy to discuss it. If you support higher minimum wages - or minimum wages at all for that matter, isn't that a form of socialism? Yet you seem to think 'socialist' is a dirty word.
  8. 21 Feb '14 19:39
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I'm happy to discuss it. If you support higher minimum wages - or minimum wages at all for that matter, isn't that a form of socialism? Yet you seem to think 'socialist' is a dirty word.
    My first experience of the word "socialism" was its use as a dirty word akin to the even worse word, communism. This was in the days when fluoridation of the public supply of water was a political left/right issue (it still is, to some.)

    Look at the associations between words that are made at this link:

    http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/minimum-wage-socialism

    "Minimum wage" - Communism" - "Karl Marx" - “To each according to his needs, from each according to his ability.”

    And that's in the first two sentences.

    It then goes into an argument (with a few ad hominems sprinked in) that is basically, "It won't benefit the economy and will hurt the worker, and oh, there are these other things we should do instead" -- (Like "choice in public education" - code for vouchers.)

    But the sound bites have been laid down.
  9. 21 Feb '14 19:44
    Originally posted by JS357
    My first experience of the word "socialism" was its use as a dirty word akin to the even worse word, communism. This was in the days when fluoridation of the public supply of water was a political left/right issue (it still is, to some.)

    Look at the associations between words that are made at this link:

    http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/minimum ...[text shortened]... "choice in public education" - code for vouchers.)

    But the sound bites have been laid down.
    If I am a consenting adult, and know someone who wants to pay me $7 per hours to do yard work, should we not be able to make a deal?

    Or are you in favor of the government telling consenting adults how they can interact?
  10. 21 Feb '14 19:59
    Originally posted by techsouth
    Or are you in favor of the government telling consenting adults how they can interact?
    I am in favor, of the electorate - via the government - telling consenting adults how the can interact, to some degree. The problem with uncontrolled capitalism, is that the rich have the power to exploit the poor - and do so.
    So its either us poor telling the rich what they can't do to us, or its the rich dictating to the poor what they can do to us.

    Its not a case of consenting adults all being free to do what they like.
  11. 21 Feb '14 20:00
    Originally posted by techsouth
    If I am a consenting adult, and know someone who wants to pay me $7 per hours to do yard work, should we not be able to make a deal?
    My first question is how did he get to be so rich that he can offer me yard work, and how did I get so poor that I would want to do his yard work for a mere $7.
  12. 21 Feb '14 21:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why dont you address the disparity between executive pay and workers pay?
    Because it is not relevant. Top executives bargain freely to secure their pay, government having no part in granting or forcing it. Everyone else has the same right. If you aren't deemed "worth" more than minimum wage, what are you doing to demonstrate your worth is greater? If government dictates a wage higher than the worth of a given job, that job will become obsolete. Does anyone still remember 1966 when almost every gas station had pump jockeys who pumped your gas, and checked your oil and tire pressures? A raise in the minimum wage wiped out that entire job category, replaced by a cashier controlling all the pumps. Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be careers. Get some skills and quite that minimum wage job ASAP.
  13. 21 Feb '14 21:33
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I am in favor, of the electorate - via the government - telling consenting adults how the can interact, to some degree. The problem with uncontrolled capitalism, is that the rich have the power to exploit the poor - and do so.
    So its either us poor telling the rich what they can't do to us, or its the rich dictating to the poor what they can do to us.

    Its not a case of consenting adults all being free to do what they like.
    The rich and poor have equal rights to do or not do work. Some rich people lament that they can't find people to do their work at any price.
  14. 21 Feb '14 21:39
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    My first question is how did he get to be so rich that he can offer me yard work, and how did I get so poor that I would want to do his yard work for a mere $7.
    During our ongoing snowy winter, I've seen 12 year old boys with shovels making $100 per hour shovelling walks and driveways.

    I often "fix" people's computers in ten minutes, at a pay rate of $800 per hour. The fixes could be gleaned from a host of "For Dummies" books. When your laptop doesn't work and all your business data is there, $100 to get it to work is worth every penny.

    It is not a matter of rich vs. poor, but of ability to solve problems.
  15. 21 Feb '14 21:41
    Originally posted by bill718
    Those dirty old Democrats are at it again, trying to raise the minim wage, how dare they! Interesting that no one raises an eyebrow as executive pay has gone up 127 times faster than worker pay in the last 30 years, but let an $8.00 an hr. clerk ask for a small raise and they're called SOCIALISTS.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/minimum-wage-debate-prods- ...[text shortened]... R2dGlkA1ZJUDM1MV8x

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html
    "let an $8.00 an hr. clerk ask for a small raise and they're called SOCIALISTS."

    That clerk if he asks may very well get his raise, and deserve it. He is a socialist when he asks the government to dictate his pay be raised when he has done nothing to prove he's worth the extra money.