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  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    23 Jun '18 17:432 edits
    In the 2016 US Presidential election, most white men *and* most white women voted
    for Donald Trump, according to exit polls or subsequent surveys.

    Some (non-American) writers here (including KazetNagorra and me) have
    asserted that appealing to racism or sexism were major factors, though
    not the only factors, in Donald Trump's success. As far as I can recall,
    nearly all Americans here dispute (often furiously) this position.
    (Some Americans have hurled insults at those who dare take this position.)

    These Americans prefer to believe that racism and sexism were *at most*
    minor factors in Donald Trump's success. To believe otherwise could
    imply that most Americans are very racist or very sexist, which are beliefs
    too painful for most Americans to accept. Few white Americans seem
    willing to accept that most Americans are very racist. Most men seem
    to deny that most men (including themselves) could be very sexist.

    https://psmag.com/social-justice/more-evidence-that-racism-and-sexism-were-key-to-trump-victory

    "More Evidence That Racism and Sexism Were Key to Trump's Victory:
    A new analysis finds attitudes about gender and race were far better
    predictors of support for Trump than personal economic woes."

    "A new scholarly analysis suggests Trump's instinct that racial prejudice
    drove him to victory is spot on."

    ""The 2016 campaign witnessed a dramatic polarization in the vote choices
    of whites based on (their level of) education," writes a research team led
    by political scientist Brian Schaffner of the University of Massachusetts–Amherst.
    "Very little of this gap can be explained by the economic difficulties faced
    by less-educated whites. Rather, most of the divide appears to be
    associated with sexism, and denialism of racism.""

    ""While the economic variables in our models were significantly associated
    with vote choice, those effects were dwarfed by the relationship between
    hostile sexism and denial of racism and voting for Trump," the researchers report.":

    "These findings held true even after the researchers took into account
    two additional factors that have been linked to Trump support: populism
    (determined by responses to statements such as "The system is stacked
    against people like me" ) and authoritarianism (as measured by attitudes
    about child-rearing)."

    ""If Republicans see little prospect of winning over racial or ethnic minorities
    in the near future, they have two choices: Moderate their appeals in
    order to restore their advantage over more educated white voters, or
    repeat the Trump strategy to maximize their support among less-educated whites,"
    they write."

    "So the portrait of working-class Trump supporters seen on the popular
    reboot of Roseanne—economically strapped, fearful about their future,
    but surprisingly tolerant—appears to be something of a fantasy."

    According to this study, in 2016 Donald Trump understood the reality
    of American racism better than the many Americans who prefer to
    downplay racism and used his understanding to become US President.

    In that sense, Donald Trump was far from stupid. It may have been
    immoral, but it was not stupid for Donald Trump to appeal to and incite racism.
    And Donald Trump's success may inspire more politicians to try his strategy.
    As often before in US politics, race-baiting succeeded--spectacularly--in 2016.
    How much longer (as US demographics change) will such race-baiting succeed?
  2. Zugzwang
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    23 Jun '18 17:44
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/polq.12737

    "Understanding White Polarization in the 2016 Vote for President: The Sobering Role of Racism and Sexism"

    This PDF article may be available for some readers.
  3. Joined
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    23 Jun '18 20:22
    Most people who voted trump or stayed at home and refuse to have anything to do with perhaps the worst pair of candidates in american history did so because clinton and the democrats ignored poor americans.

    In their arrogance they propped up a racist baboon and refused to put any effort against him. They demanded the poor vote for them while offering nothing in return. They presented the status quo as the best poor americans could hope for. In their arrogance they considered it was clinton's divine right to the presidency, that it was her turn.

    The american people punished her and the democrats for it.


    Racists and sexists who voted for trump because of his racism and sexism are few. Too few. If you don't understand most of Trump's voters voted for him because at least he made some promises to make their life better, if you don't learn from Bernie Sanders or better yet nominate him as the democrat candidate you are looking at Trump 2020, easy
  4. Zugzwang
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    23 Jun '18 20:483 edits
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    Most people who voted trump or stayed at home and refuse to have anything to do with perhaps the worst pair of candidates in american history did so because clinton and the democrats ignored poor americans.

    In their arrogance they propped up a racist baboon and refused to put any effort against him. They demanded the poor vote for them while offering n ...[text shortened]... Sanders or better yet nominate him as the democrat candidate you are looking at Trump 2020, easy
    https://psmag.com/social-justice/more-evidence-that-racism-and-sexism-were-key-to-trump-victory

    "More Evidence That Racism and Sexism Were Key to Trump's Victory:
    A new analysis finds attitudes about gender and race were far better
    predictors of support for Trump than personal economic woes."

    "A new scholarly analysis suggests Trump's instinct that racial prejudice
    drove him to victory is spot on."

    ""The 2016 campaign witnessed a dramatic polarization in the vote choices
    of whites based on (their level of) education," writes a research team led
    by political scientist Brian Schaffner of the University of Massachusetts–Amherst.
    "Very little of this gap can be explained by the economic difficulties faced
    by less-educated whites. Rather, most of the divide appears to be
    associated with sexism, and denialism of racism.""

    ""While the economic variables in our models were significantly associated
    with vote choice, those effects were dwarfed by the relationship between
    hostile sexism and denial of racism and voting for Trump," the researchers report.":

    Zahlanzi completely rejects this academic study (to which I have linked in this thread).
    Is this another of Zahlanzi's 'proofs by assertion'?

    "Racists and sexists who voted for trump because of his racism and sexism are few."
    --Zahlanzi

    Zahlanzi (a white man) confirms the bias that I already mentioned.

    "Some (non-American) writers here (including KazetNagorra and me) have
    asserted that appealing to racism or sexism were major factors, though
    not the only factors, in Donald Trump's success. As far as I can recall,
    nearly all Americans here dispute (often furiously) this position.
    (Some Americans have hurled insults at those who dare take this position.)

    These Americans prefer to believe that racism and sexism were *at most*
    minor factors in Donald Trump's success. To believe otherwise could
    imply that most Americans are very racist or very sexist, which are beliefs
    too painful for most Americans to accept. Few white Americans seem
    willing to accept that most Americans are very racist. Most men seem
    to deny that most men (including themselves) could be very sexist."
    --Duchess64

    The study was published in 'Political Science Quarterly' Volume 133, Number 1 (Spring 2018).
    Would Zahlanzi like to submit his 'refutation' for publication there?
  5. Joined
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    23 Jun '18 21:29
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    In the 2016 US Presidential election, most white men *and* most white women voted
    for Donald Trump, according to exit polls or subsequent surveys.

    Some (non-American) writers here (including KazetNagorra and me) have
    asserted that appealing to racism or sexism were major factors, though
    not the only factors, in Donald Trump's success. As far as I ...[text shortened]... tacularly--in 2016.
    How much longer (as US demographics change) will such race-baiting succeed?
    now explain Obama getting 96% of black vote
  6. SubscriberTom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
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    23 Jun '18 21:322 edits
    As usual with the majority of never-Trumpers. Almost all of your arguments involve the presumption of guilt by those you oppose. Trump, his administration, his voters, and by extension anyone who didn't vote against him, MUST be racist, sexist, islamophobic, xenophobic, deplorable, stupid, redneck, etc. Your argument is, "no one in their right mind wouldn't have voted for Hillary." And by insisting such, you insult, anger, embolden, and empower your opposition all the more.
  7. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    23 Jun '18 21:34
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    now explain Obama getting 96% of black vote
    The troll Mott-the-Hoopie fails to comprehend that the study does NOT cover Barack Obama.
  8. Germany
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    23 Jun '18 21:37
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    In the 2016 US Presidential election, most white men *and* most white women voted
    for Donald Trump, according to exit polls or subsequent surveys.

    Some (non-American) writers here (including KazetNagorra and me) have
    asserted that appealing to racism or sexism were major factors, though
    not the only factors, in Donald Trump's success. As far as I ...[text shortened]... tacularly--in 2016.
    How much longer (as US demographics change) will such race-baiting succeed?
    Trump's appeal to racism isn't a strategy as much as it is just him showing his true colours. He's a racist, and racists like that.
  9. SubscriberTom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
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    23 Jun '18 21:38
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Trump's appeal to racism isn't a strategy as much as it is just him showing his true colours. He's a racist, and racists like that.
    Ok. You're a racist and a sexist. So what.
  10. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    23 Jun '18 21:412 edits
    "Understanding White Polarization in the 2016 Vote for President: The Sobering Role of Racism and Sexism"
    by Brian F. Schaffner, Matthew Macwilliams. Tatishe Nteta

    As I expected, there's no relevant criticism so far of this academic study (published in
    'Political Science Quarterly' ) by three American professors.

    There are racist trolls hurling insults, and Zahlanzi asserting that Americans cannot
    possibly have been as influenced by racism or sexism in 2016 as this study has found.

    I await the troll(s) denouncing me for allegedly being completely ignorant and misinformed
    about the USA because I cite an American academic study published in a reputable American journal.
  11. Zugzwang
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    23 Jun '18 21:431 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Trump's appeal to racism isn't a strategy as much as it is just him showing his true colours.
    He's a racist, and racists like that.
    I never have written that Donald Trump's a real non-racist who pretended to be racist
    only in order to appeal to racist American voters.

    In some, though not all, political contests, a politician may be more successful by
    appealing to racism, though not too overtly, rather than pretending to oppose racism.
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
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    23 Jun '18 21:451 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    In the 2016 US Presidential election, most white men *and* most white women voted
    for Donald Trump, according to exit polls or subsequent surveys.

    Some (non-American) writers here (including KazetNagorra and me) have
    asserted that appealing to racism or sexism were major factors, though
    not the only factors, in Donald Trump's success. As far as I ...[text shortened]... tacularly--in 2016.
    How much longer (as US demographics change) will such race-baiting succeed?
    I feel your position is too harsh. I recall in another thread you talked about fish who could not see water. As an aside, there was an interesting article in New Scientist a little while ago (I can dig out the issue if anyone wants the reference) about a psychotic AI. They trained it on images of death and harm and then looked at its responses to Rorschach tests, it's descriptions were dark compared with an AI that had been trained on more happy images. Where the happy AI saw a wedding cake the psychotic AI saw a wife screaming as her husband was murdered. The point I am getting to is that the article mentioned an AI trained to produce likely profiles of criminals. The mostly white male team of programmers naively gave the AI twenty odd years of police data, without stopping to think that the data might be biased. Lo and behold the AI was convinced a disproportionate number of crimes were committed by a black people. I think that Trumps victory might not be driven by racists per say, but by people unaware of the racist nature of their society.
  13. Zugzwang
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    23 Jun '18 21:553 edits
    Originally posted by @deepthought
    I feel your position is too harsh. I recall in another thread you talked about fish who could not see water. As an aside, there was an interesting article in New Scientist a little while ago (I can dig out the issue if anyone wants the reference) about a psychotic AI. They trained it on images of death and harm and then looked at its responses to Ror ...[text shortened]... t not be driven by racists per say, but by people unaware of the racist nature of their society.
    "I feel your position is too harsh."
    --DeepThought

    I expect all white Americans here to feel that I (or the white Americans whom I quote or cite)
    are too critical of white American racism.

    On many occasions, I have quoted or cited articles by Jamie Utt, a white American man
    who's an activist against racism. He has helped me (not being a white American)
    understand better how white Americans feel and think, if they do, about racism.

    In the threads where I quote or cite Jamie Utt, there often are (in addition to the usual insults)
    lying racist trolls who pretend that I alone originally wrote everything that Jamie Utt did,
    and that must prove that I obviously understand nothing about Americans, white people,
    and racism. These trolls typically take care to avoid criticizing Jamie Utt since, as a
    white American man, he warrants a show of some respect by other white Americans.

    "...by people unaware of the racist nature of their society."
    --DeepThought

    Jamie Utt often has discussed and criticized white Americans' common obtuse blindness
    to 'the racist nature of their society'.

    I wonder how much sympathy white Americans would extend toward ordinary *casually*
    anti-Semitic Germans who seemed unaware of deeper anti-Semitism in the Third Reich.

    In any case, the study concludes that racism and/or sexism were more important than
    economic concerns in motivating Americans to vote for Donald Trump in 2016.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jun '18 22:011 edit
    There's not much doubt that empirical evidence shows that racial resentment was a major factor in the reasons why Trump voters supported him. It's a bit more problematic to claim that was the "key" to his victory; after all he lost the popular vote and got a lower percentage of the votes than Mitt Romney in 2012. Moreover, there were significant swings in the election polls based on events that occurred in the campaign most noticeably the Comey letter released late in the campaign.

    There is pretty strong evidence that the US is getting less overtly racist, so to say a candidate won because he was racist seems problematic.

    An interview with one of the authors of the study cited admits this difficulty:

    Given the fact that Trump won the election by such a narrow margin, any number of things could have made the difference. It's always difficult for a party to win a third term in the White House, so part of the outcome was merely an advantage that any Republican would have had. It's also the case that changes in turnout patterns from 2012 mattered. Specifically, I have shown (along with some colleagues) that black turnout was down while white turnout was up in 2016, which may have very well made the difference.

    But Trump also seemed to benefit from receiving an unprecedented amount of support from whites without college degrees, a fact that was particularly important in states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. My research suggests that this support was strongly driven by racial resentment and sexism among that exact demographic.

    https://www.salon.com/2018/04/19/white-people-in-america-are-sharply-divided-by-education-and-income-donald-trump-is-the-result/
  15. Zugzwang
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    23 Jun '18 22:121 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    There's not much doubt that empirical evidence shows that racial resentment was a major factor in the reasons why Trump voters supported him. It's a bit more problematic to claim that was the "key" to his victory; after all he lost the popular vote and got a lower percentage of the votes than Mitt Romney in 2012. Moreover, there were significant swings ...[text shortened]... g less overtly racist, so to say a candidate won because he was racist seems problematic.
    The lawyer No1Marauder may put his objections in a letter to 'Political Science Quarterly',
    which published the study.

    "There is pretty strong evidence that the US is getting less overtly racist ..."
    --No1Marauder

    The USA may be 'getting less overtly racist' on average, but not everywhere at the same time.
    There are many exceptions. White nationalist groups seem more numerous and active.

    The USA may be 'getting less overtly racist' against some minorities but not so much against others.
    Do most Arab Americans believe there's less racism against them today than there was 20 years ago?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/roseanne-barr-should-blame-trump-most-of-all/2018/05/31/4b2e3f6a-6515-11e8-99d2-0d678ec08c2f_story.html?utm_term=.2adc87e6ed28

    "Roseanne Barr should blame Trump most of all"
    --Eugene Robinson (an African American)

    "President Trump wants to create a safe public space for ugly, unvarnished, unambiguous racism,
    which he knows he can exploit for political advantage.
    ...
    "You can see Trump’s narcissism at work there, but also his calculation. He portrays
    himself as a victim and encourages his supporters to do likewise. He apparently realizes
    that defending Barr — a Trump supporter whose show the president has praised in the
    past — would be going too far. But he is careful not to offer even the mildest criticism of
    what she said."

    "She ought to blame Trump, if his election and his big mouth lulled her into believing it
    was safe and funny to be racist [in public]."

    "Perhaps the president will invite her to the Oval Office for some laughs. Just the two of them."
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