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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    16 Jun '11 23:46
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4082782,00.html

    Apartheid?

    I don't think do.
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    16 Jun '11 23:52
    Cool.
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    17 Jun '11 00:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4082782,00.html

    Apartheid?

    I don't think do.
    Tokenism?

    I think so.

    "He was recently nominated to the office of deputy chief of the Traffic Department."

    Let me know when a Muslim gets named head of Mossad.
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    17 Jun '11 00:35 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Tokenism? I think so.
    Whether it's 'tokenism' is a red herring and, as an exercise in mind reading and assertion & counter-assertion, futile. Israelis number among those who have used the term 'apartheid' when criticizing their own nation's political system. The question is: will their specific complaints about citizenship, land & housing, freedom of political action and speech be addressed by a Muslim being promoted in the Traffic Department?
  5. 17 Jun '11 04:18
    Herman Cain should take a lesson.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    17 Jun '11 17:15 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Whether it's 'tokenism' is a red herring and, as an exercise in mind reading and assertion & counter-assertion, futile. Israelis number among those who have used the term 'apartheid' when criticizing their own nation's political system. The question is: will their specific complaints about citizenship, land & housing, freedom of political action and speech be addressed by a Muslim being promoted in the Traffic Department?
    Obviously, this one event doesn't solve all the problems; but this event does belie the entire "Apartheid" comparison that is the only basis for usage of the word.

    This is hardly tokenism.


    Arabs make up a significant percentage of government employees

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/arabct.html


    There are Arab Generals in the IDF

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#cite_note-126


    There is an Arab on the Israeli Supreme Court:

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/arabct.html


    They even have their own little affirmative action program to increase arab representation in the government

    http://www.pmo.gov.il/PMOEng/Archive/Current+Events/2005/01/event240105.htm

    etc.


    Seriously. How could anyone reasonable use the "Apartheid" comparison? I know some Israeli people use it as well. There are nuts in Israel too. That doesn't make it any more correct.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmerYYdJDv0
  7. 17 Jun '11 17:22
    Well, look, I think the apartheid equivalence argument is mistaken, although the occupied territories do have some resemblance to the Bantustands of old South Africa. And we're talking about two groups who are ethnically the same, which is why Palestinian kids can easily slip into Israeli teenage dance halls on suicide bombing missions.

    But the old South African regime did actually appoint blacks to government posts, whether or not you want to call it "tokenism." So there's nothing in this particular appointment which would distinguish it from the real Apartheid.
  8. 17 Jun '11 17:23
    And by "Arab" do you mean Muslim or otherwise non-Jewish? Because the Sephardim are both Arab and Jewish.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    17 Jun '11 18:06
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    And by "Arab" do you mean Muslim or otherwise non-Jewish? Because the Sephardim are both Arab and Jewish.
    Arab means Arab-non-Jewish. Not necessarily Muslim; could also be Christian.
  10. 17 Jun '11 18:48
    I just can't see how anyone in the US can look down upon Israel and feel fine about the US. The US was worse than South Africa. The US all but wiped out the local population and now it is somehow OK.

    Passing judgement on Israel while failing to give your property to a native American is the height of hypocrisy.
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    17 Jun '11 19:45
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    And by "Arab" do you mean Muslim or otherwise non-Jewish? Because the Sephardim are both Arab and Jewish.
    Sephardim are Spaniards, not Arabs. Sephardim literally means "Spanish". Sephardic Jew = Spanish Jew.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    17 Jun '11 19:47
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    And by "Arab" do you mean Muslim or otherwise non-Jewish? Because the Sephardim are both Arab and Jewish.
    "Arab" means of the Semitic group that comes from Arabia, versus the Semitic group that comes from Judea.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    17 Jun '11 20:12
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Well, look, I think the apartheid equivalence argument is mistaken, although the occupied territories do have some resemblance to the Bantustands of old South Africa. And we're talking about two groups who are ethnically the same, which is why Palestinian kids can easily slip into Israeli teenage dance halls on suicide bombing missions.

    But the old South ...[text shortened]... s nothing in this particular appointment which would distinguish it from the real Apartheid.
    Arabs and Jews are not ethnically the same. They are closely related, but not the same.
  14. 17 Jun '11 20:47
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Sephardim are Spaniards, not Arabs. Sephardim literally means "Spanish". Sephardic Jew = Spanish Jew.
    I know the word, but the majority of Sephardim are actually local. I believe the word dates back to when the Ottoman empire extended to what is now Spain and a large community of Jews lived there. But they were expelled in the 1400s and most of them returned to the Middle East having had little opportunity for mixed blood as in the Ashkenazi. So they are Semitic to the core, and ethnically Arab with some other North African blends.
  15. 17 Jun '11 20:49
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Arabs and Jews are not ethnically the same. They are closely related, but not the same.
    My understanding is that there is almost no distinction in terms of DNA tracking.