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  1. 07 Sep '17 01:46 / 2 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/06/white-people-solution-problem-munroe-bergdorf-racist

    "My fellow white people: if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
    Munroe Bergdorf’s assertion that all white people are racist has upset many,
    but society is skewed in our favour and it is right to acknowledge that."
    --Katherine Craig

    "For the record, I’m white. I don’t hate other white people. Lots of my friends are white.
    Yet the statement “all white people are racist” doesn’t make me angry.
    It makes me sad, because I believe it’s probably true.

    Just to be clear: I unequivocally oppose all forms of racism. As a human rights lawyer,
    I’ve brought cases against individuals, companies and governments for
    racial discrimination. I’ve attended protests opposing racist policies.
    I’ve boycotted companies that made racist statements or behaved in a
    discriminatory fashion. I’ve laid wreaths in the slave dungeons of west Africa
    and gas chambers of eastern Europe, and I have called out racist language,
    including when it meant placing myself at risk. I have supported community
    groups and organisations championing rights for people of colour, and
    have tried hard to serve them with humility. And, yes, I have lots of black friends.
    But that doesn’t mean my thoughts or actions have never been tarnished
    by a subconscious, racially prejudicial thought.

    Too often, we seem to think that racism means actively doing or saying something racist. Not so.

    We live in a society that is built on the spoils of racism, and that continues to
    benefit from inequality in all its forms. Or, as Bergdorf put it: “Slavery and colonialism,
    at the hands of white supremacy, played a huge part in shaping the
    United Kingdom and much of the west, into the superpower that it is today.”

    “Why does that make me a racist?!” I hear you ask. It comes down to this:
    in western society we are all taught (explicitly or implicitly) that lighter is better.
    Those racist narratives are particularly prevalent in the US, but you’re
    kidding yourself if you think we Britons don’t suffer from the same prejudice."

    "As Bergdorf said “…western society as a whole, is a SYSTEM rooted
    in white supremacy – designed to benefit, prioritise and protect white
    people before anyone of any other race”.

    There’s a lot of evidence to support that claim. For example, you’re six
    times more likely to get stopped by the police if you’re black."

    "Our society has structural inequalities that benefit white people over
    people of colour (in the same way that structural inequalities around
    class, gender, sexuality, age and disability benefit certain groups over others).
    I benefit from that white privilege, and if you’re white, so do you.
    It’s not a choice we made, but it is a fact. And, significantly, we benefit
    from that at the cost of people of colour. If, as a white person, I am more
    likely to get hired than my equally competent BAME counterpart (something
    that has been amply documented), then I am benefiting from my white
    privilege as part of a systemically racist society. When there is only so
    much of the pie to go around, getting more than your fair share inevitably
    comes at the cost of someone else.

    "As Bergdorf states: “Institutionalised, systemic racism is just as damaging as a violent, racist attack.”
    Bergdorf didn’t cause offence because she was wrong. She caused
    offence because she highlighted an uncomfortable truth: that being
    un-racist is not the same as being anti-racist."

    "Any white person who is serious about racial equality has to be anti-racist.
    This requires us to actively acknowledge our privilege, because that
    privilege – even though we never asked for it – is the very cause of the
    inequity suffered by others. Only then can we be part of a meaningful
    solution to institutional racism. We have a choice: be offended, or be
    part of the solution. But we can’t be both. I’ve learned not to bristle at
    the statement “all white people are racist”. Instead, I learned to listen
    to the pain, injustice and – yes – the accuracy in that statement.
    Just like I learned to recognise those subtle situations where my race
    made my life easier, and someone else’s life harder. Every day, I am
    still unlearning subconscious prejudices, and checking my thoughts,
    actions and language for hidden bias. Because I would rather acknowledge
    those faults now than look back in years to come and know that I could
    have done more to be on the right side of history."
    --Katherine Craig

    This is generally a useful and thought-provoking article for white people.

    Critically speaking, I would say that, like most Britons and nearly all Americans,
    Katherine Craig puts too much emphasis on racism as a narrow black-white binary.
    In Western societies, there has been and continues to be ample racism
    against peoples who are neither of white European nor black African ancestry.
    Sometimes this racism is even worse than that against black people.
    But all too often the non-black peoples afflicted by this racism struggle
    in vain to get their experiences and grievances heard by the people
    who are convinced that racism is an exclusive black-white binary.
    Even fewer white people seem ready to stand up on behalf of some
    politically marginalized minorities when they struggle against racism.

    I would add that 'the West' (particularly the UK) no longer is the colossus
    astride the globe that Munroe Bergdorf seems to imagine in her rhetoric.
    Non-Westerners no longer tremble at the sight of gunboats with Western flags.
    This changing dynamic of power may have trickle-down consequences for racism in the West.
    For instance, while Hollywood remains deeply racist toward East Asians,
    there's some evidence that Hollywood has begun softening its overt racism
    against Chinese, for instance, because it wants its films to sell in China,
    which is potentially a lucrative market. I doubt that the white men who run
    Hollywood have become any less prejudiced; they simply prefer to put
    the bottom line (money) ahead of their prejudices more of the time.
    But it would be foolish to expect that racism will disappear--effortlessly
    and without white people needing to examine themselves and change--
    simply because global capitalism may make it less profitable.
  2. 07 Sep '17 02:26 / 2 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/06/white-people-solution-problem-munroe-bergdorf-racist

    "Munroe Bergdorf on the L’Oréal racism row: ‘It puzzles me that my views are considered extreme’
    The trans model was sacked last week for criticising white privilege. Here, she talks about
    growing up in a mixed-race family, surviving rape – and why she doesn’t regret speaking out."

    "Bergdorf, a 30-year-old, black, queer, trans woman who models and DJs, is no stranger
    to abuse and ridicule. Her very existence is subversive and threatening enough to the
    mainstream that a trickle of racist, homophobic and transphobic bile has become par for
    the course in her daily life on and offline – but now it has become a torrent."

    "The post was then filleted for its most incendiary lines: “Most of ya’ll don’t even realise
    or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on
    the backs, blood and death of people of colour,” she wrote. “Your entire existence is
    drenched in racism. From micro-aggressions to terrorism, you built the blueprint for this ***.
    Come see me when you realise racism isn’t learned, it’s inherited and consciously or
    unconsciously passed down through privilege. Once white people begin to admit their
    race is the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth … then we can talk.”

    "“I can wholeheartedly say that the dictionary definition of racism was written a very long
    time ago and not by a person of colour. It doesn’t allow us to have a conversation about
    modern-day racism. If you’re not aware of it, then make yourself aware of it. Racism isn’t
    just calling someone something, it’s a whole system. If you think we live in an equal society,
    you’re living in a daydream. You need to recognise that there is such a thing as white
    privilege and you can be homeless and still have white privilege, because you can still have
    a better chance of getting out of homelessness than a person of colour in the same position.”
    --Munroe Bergdorf
  3. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    07 Sep '17 03:51
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/06/white-people-solution-problem-munroe-bergdorf-racist

    "Munroe Bergdorf on the L’Oréal racism row: ‘It puzzles me that my views are considered extreme’
    The trans model was sacked last week for criticising white privilege. Here, she talks about
    growing up in a mixed-race family, surviving rape – an ...[text shortened]... f getting out of homelessness than a person of colour in the same position.”
    --Munroe Bergdorf
    L’Oréal products are now banned from my home because of their treatment of her.

    Yeah, I know, personal boycotts mean nothing to them, but if there were enough people taking a stand, it could start to mean something.
  4. 07 Sep '17 05:08
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/06/white-people-solution-problem-munroe-bergdorf-racist

    "My fellow white people: if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
    Munroe Bergdorf’s assertion that all white people are racist has upset many,
    but society is skewed in our favour and it is right to acknowledge that."
    -- ...[text shortened]... o examine themselves and change--
    simply because global capitalism may make it less profitable.
    "This is generally a useful and thought-provoking article for white people. "

    This may be generally a useful and thought-provoking article for any people who identify themselves with others they deem to be of their kind..
  5. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    07 Sep '17 05:18
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    L’Oréal products are now banned from my home because of their treatment of her.

    Yeah, I know, personal boycotts mean nothing to them, but if there were enough people taking a stand, it could start to mean something.
    I'm going to start buying their products.
  6. 07 Sep '17 06:22
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    L’Oréal products are now banned from my home because of their treatment of her.

    Yeah, I know, personal boycotts mean nothing to them, but if there were enough people taking a stand, it could start to mean something.
    It's a him stupido.
  7. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    07 Sep '17 07:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    I'm going to start buying their products.

    Originally posted by @kquinn909
    It's a him stupido.
    The Neanderthals speak.
  8. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    07 Sep '17 08:03
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    The Neanderthals speak.
    Jokes on you Suzi, neanderthals became extinct 400 years a go.
  9. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    07 Sep '17 08:22
    There's a reason we're racist.
    We're just so blatantly better than non-white males.

    Now, get back into that cotton field and make me some sandwiches!
    Or, whatever the hell else you're doing out there.
  10. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    07 Sep '17 10:09
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Jokes on you Suzi, neanderthals became extinct 400 years a go.
    Really? I suppose you think the earth is 6000 years old?

    Try 40,000 years ago.
  11. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    07 Sep '17 11:00
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Jokes on you Suzi, neanderthals became extinct 400 years a go.
    Really? I'm pretty sure you're living proof they're still amongst us.
  12. 07 Sep '17 12:56
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/06/white-people-solution-problem-munroe-bergdorf-racist

    "Munroe Bergdorf on the L’Oréal racism row: ‘It puzzles me that my views are considered extreme’
    The trans model was sacked last week for criticising white privilege. Here, she talks about
    growing up in a mixed-race family, surviving rape – an ...[text shortened]... f getting out of homelessness than a person of colour in the same position.”
    --Munroe Bergdorf
    "Once white people begin to admit their race is the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth … then we can talk.”
    what a load of crap. humans are violent and oppressive. all of them. not because of the color of their skin.

    the only thing white people did differently was being better at being horrible towards their fellow man. they were murdering bastards that managed to get together with other murdering bastards until they became murdering bastards with guns and a well trained military force with which they conquered other murdering bastards who were murdering bastards on a much smaller scale.

    there were wars of conquest in africa and asia too. there were genocides in asia and africa as well. Before the spanish brutally conquered the aztec empire the aztecs were sacrificing people so that the sun didn't die.

    She makes it sound that the entire world was made up of tree hugging hippies and the brutal whites came along.



    Racism will dissapear once you realize that it doesn't matter what the color of your skin ism, what dangles (or doesn't) between one's legs, who one worships or doesn't, but only if you treat your fellow human as a fellow human
  13. 07 Sep '17 13:43
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi

    Racism will dissapear once you realize that it doesn't matter what the color of your skin ism, what dangles (or doesn't) between one's legs, who one worships or doesn't, but only if you treat your fellow human as a fellow human[/b]
    If you believe that then you wouldn't need to create a new generation of unequal treatment via affirmative action. Perhaps instead of deciding which groups were wronged and which groups owe compensation to other groups, we could try something truly novel like treat people equally and not worry about irrelevant characteristics.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    07 Sep '17 14:40 / 1 edit
    It's a testament to the magnanimous human spirit and the amazing advancement of human culture and technology that people have time, in their professional lives no less, to write these meaningless self-flagellating rants just to assuage their own non-quantifiable feelings of guilt.

    After Richard Nixon once ranted about how he needed to be tough on China because he didn't become President to preside over the weakening of the United States, Pete Hamill panned him in the NY Times with an Editorial mockingly titled "Therapeutic Foreign Policy" about how US foreign policy was now an instrument to ensure that Richard Nixon's ego wasn't hurt.

    Ms. Craig belongs on a psychotherapist's couch.That she's getting paid for voluntarily disclosing her own psycho-trauma is unsettling, yet somehow comforting.
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    07 Sep '17 14:46 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    "Once white people begin to admit their race is the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth … then we can talk.”
    what a load of crap. humans are violent and oppressive. all of them. not because of the color of their skin.

    the only thing white people did differently was being better at being horrible towards their fellow man. they were mur ...[text shortened]... e's legs, who one worships or doesn't, but only if you treat your fellow human as a fellow human
    We've had our differences, but on this one, Zahlanzi hit the nail on the head.

    Dan Carlin loves to point out that, as of, say, 600 hundred years ago, while people would have been in 3rd place of likely future holders of world hegemony. Chinese and Arabs would both have been favored over Europeans. Through what has to be described primarily as luck, white people won the race to industry and especially military industry. But if anyone thinks that white people got there merely by being more brutal, they're delusional.