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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Jul '14 12:29
    I'm done defending Israel in this conflict and done trying to argue justifications. I support Israel's right to defend itself by attacking Hamas' ability to wage war on Israel, but Israel's operation has reached beyond what is reasonably necessary to do that and has extended to the level of overkill and needless destruction.

    I am utterly despondent over the whole situation. I am despondent for the people of Gaza who are suffering. I am despondent for Israeli soldiers and civilians whose lives are at risk as well. I am despondent for all of the people of Israel, the WB and Gaza who want peace but can't have it due to the bungling of the idiot politicians and the extremism of the religious nut jobs. I am despondent and frightened for myself and all of the other Jews of the Diaspora who have to bear the brunt of physical and rhetorical anti-Jewish attacks, such as those happening in Europe.

    This is a tragedy. There's no longer a right and wrong as far as I'm concerned right now. It's a needless, senseless tragedy perpetuated by religious thugs and stupid politicians. I just can't deal with it anymore. I'm not going to argue merits of this conflict at least until it ends. I makes me too upset. This is not a game for me.

    Thank you to everyone I've sparred with on this issue (except for s/he knows who) for being respectful in our dialogues even when disagreeing. I'm moving to other issues.
  2. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    30 Jul '14 12:38 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'm done defending Israel in this conflict and done trying to argue justifications. I support Israel's right to defend itself by attacking Hamas' ability to wage war on Israel, but Israel's operation has reached beyond what is reasonably necessary to do that and has extended to the level of overkill and needless destruction.

    I am utterly despondent over the ...[text shortened]... ws who) for being respectful in our dialogues even when disagreeing. I'm moving to other issues.
    Israel has announced a 4 hour seize fire to allow for humanitarian operations for those in Gaza. However, if Hamas continues their rocket attacks during this time they will retaliate. There have been other times of seize fire, but Hamas refuses to make any agreement to stop their attacks on israel.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Jul '14 15:28
    The world is a scary place.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/08/exodus-why-europes-jews-are-fleeing-once-again-261854.html

    Hey, Europe. Before you wag your finger so much, maybe clean up your own yard a little bit.

    Oh, and this is Newsweek, not JPost or Fox News.
  4. Standard member CalJust
    It is what it is
    30 Jul '14 16:15
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'm done defending Israel in this conflict and done trying to argue justifications. I support Israel's right to defend itself by attacking Hamas' ability to wage war on Israel, but Israel's operation has reached beyond what is reasonably necessary to do that and has extended to the level of overkill and needless destruction.
    I feel exactly like you do, and you prove my comment that Israel is losing the support of its friends.

    See my post on page 5 of the "war is just so terrorism is just" thread.

    Terrible, terrible.
  5. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    30 Jul '14 16:43
    Originally posted by sh76
    The world is a scary place.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/08/exodus-why-europes-jews-are-fleeing-once-again-261854.html

    Hey, Europe. Before you wag your finger so much, maybe clean up your own yard a little bit.

    Oh, and this is Newsweek, not JPost or Fox News.
    This actually deserves a seperate thread, sh76.

    It's much along the lines of me telling someone what I'm going to do to their mother; just to insult them.

    But, to a certain degree... you are right. We Europeans (and I don't mean this as a joke) are the nastiest people on the planet. I mean, God damn, we even managed to industrialise hatred.

    Most hatred towards foreigners at the moment is directed towards moslims (unemployment, cheap labour... well... the East block Christians OBVIOUSLY have a hand in that one)...
    But when poverty and fear rear their ugly head in Europe, it is true... we have a tendency to turn rather vicious.
    Hence the communist movement... keep the buggers not scared and not poor... live and let bloody live

    (it's also the reason laissez faire capitalism will meet its end in Europe)

    These demonstrations in Paris (and some in Holland, etc.) are emotional responses brought on by an inability to change things (so folk are basically stuck in their circle of interest, rather than influence).

    Don't mistake it for an actual hatred of Jews though.
    Most of these people wouldn't recognise a Jew if they were being circumsized by one.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Jul '14 16:50
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    This actually deserves a seperate thread, sh76.

    It's much along the lines of me telling someone what I'm going to do to their mother; just to insult them.

    But, to a certain degree... you are right. We Europeans (and I don't mean this as a joke) are the nastiest people on the planet. I mean, God damn, we even managed to industrialise hatred.

    Most ...[text shortened]... s though.
    Most of these people wouldn't recognise a Jew if they were being circumsized by one.
    You're right. My crack about Europeans was emotional and unfair.

    If I tar all Europeans with the same brush, I'm being as bad as the anti-Semites who tar all Jews with the same brush.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Jul '14 16:52
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I feel exactly like you do, and you prove my comment that Israel is losing the support of its friends.

    See my post on page 5 of the "war is just so terrorism is just" thread.

    Terrible, terrible.
    Yes, I saw your post and agree with it.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    30 Jul '14 18:39
    The original Zealots were Jews.
  9. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    30 Jul '14 18:54
    I think this is the right thread for this little clip. To lighten the mood.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rwq1cqh7Bc
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Jul '14 19:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    I think this is the right thread for this little clip. To lighten the mood.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rwq1cqh7Bc
    <facepalm>



    Thank you, SG
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    30 Jul '14 19:25
    Originally posted by sh76
    The world is a scary place.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/08/exodus-why-europes-jews-are-fleeing-once-again-261854.html

    Hey, Europe. Before you wag your finger so much, maybe clean up your own yard a little bit.

    Oh, and this is Newsweek, not JPost or Fox News.
    A clarification about the quenelle - it is not a Hitler salute.

    The quenelle means "I have so much contempt for you I am going to shove my arm up your a* up to here!"

    That's why the other hand is always placed over the straight arm - it's showing how far up your butt he's going to go. The closer to the shoulder he puts the other hand, the more contempt he shows.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    30 Jul '14 20:12
    FACT - Whichever side obeys God's laws of war (they're in both the Torah and Qu'ran) will eventually win.
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Jul '14 20:55
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    A clarification about the quenelle - it is not a Hitler salute.

    The quenelle means "I have so much contempt for you I am going to shove my arm up your a* up to here!"

    That's why the other hand is always placed over the straight arm - it's showing how far up your butt he's going to go. The closer to the shoulder he puts the other hand, the more contempt he shows.
    Oh, okay. Well, that's comforting.
  14. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    30 Jul '14 21:56
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'm done defending Israel in this conflict and done trying to argue justifications. I support Israel's right to defend itself by attacking Hamas' ability to wage war on Israel, but Israel's operation has reached beyond what is reasonably necessary to do that and has extended to the level of overkill and needless destruction.

    I am utterly despondent over the ...[text shortened]... ws who) for being respectful in our dialogues even when disagreeing. I'm moving to other issues.
    I didn't think I'd end up reccing one of your posts on this issue, but did so there you are.
  15. Donation kirksey957
    Outkast
    31 Jul '14 01:09
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'm done defending Israel in this conflict and done trying to argue justifications. I support Israel's right to defend itself by attacking Hamas' ability to wage war on Israel, but Israel's operation has reached beyond what is reasonably necessary to do that and has extended to the level of overkill and needless destruction.

    I am utterly despondent over the ...[text shortened]... ws who) for being respectful in our dialogues even when disagreeing. I'm moving to other issues.
    I have often said that the Palestinians will never get what they want until a Ghandi, Mandela, or MLK comes along. From a Jewish perspective, what would be a guiding principle to understand the conflict and what would be an acceptable "Passover" to something new?