Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    06 Aug '18 23:31
    At the Olympic games, t's well-known that more than a few athletes
    represent countries for which they otherwise would have few or no ties.

    In 1984, Zola Budd, a white South African with a British grandfather, received
    preferential treatment (exceptionally fast processing of her application)
    from the UK government so she could become a UK citizen and represent
    the UK at the 1984 Olympics (where apartheid South Africa was banned).

    Becky Hammon is a widely admired assistant coach for the San Antonio Spurs,
    and she may become the first woman to become a head coach in the NBA.
    Notwithstanding having no ancestral ties to Russia, in 2008 she became
    a Russian citizen simply so she could represent Russia in the 2008 and 2012 Olympics.
    She was not good enough as a basketball player to represent the USA,
    so playing for Russia was her way of realizing her dream of being in the Olympics.

    Is there anything wrong with this practice?
  2. Joined
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    07 Aug '18 00:18
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    At the Olympic games, t's well-known that more than a few athletes
    represent countries for which they otherwise would have few or no ties.

    In 1984, Zola Budd, a white South African with a British grandfather, received
    preferential treatment (exceptionally fast processing of her application)
    from the UK government so she could become a UK citizen an ...[text shortened]... of realizing her dream of being in the Olympics.

    Is there anything wrong with this practice?
    For a person like me...yes. for a person like you...no.
  3. Zugzwang
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    07 Aug '18 01:191 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    At the Olympic games, t's well-known that more than a few athletes
    represent countries for which they otherwise would have few or no ties.

    In 1984, Zola Budd, a white South African with a British grandfather, received
    preferential treatment (exceptionally fast processing of her application)
    from the UK government so she could become a UK citizen an ...[text shortened]... of realizing her dream of being in the Olympics.

    Is there anything wrong with this practice?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becky_Hammon

    "In 2008, after learning that, once again, she would not be invited to try out for the U.S. national team,
    Hammon announced she would try to claim a roster slot on the Russian national team in
    the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Hammon became a Russian citizen in 2008. The coach of
    Russia's team, Igor Grudin, is also the sports director of the CSKA team that Hammon
    plays for in Moscow during the WNBA off-season. Hammon also signed a three-year extension
    with CSKA Moscow at around the same time she was named as a prospect for the national team.

    Hammon's decision to play for Russia was controversial in American basketball.[26]
    In some circles she was branded an American traitor, with then-U.S. national coach
    Anne Donovan questioning her patriotism.
    ...
    Hammon said she played for Russia primarily to play on the Olympic stage, and it was
    not a purely financial decision. However, by obtaining Russian citizenship, her salary with
    CSKA tripled, and she was eligible to make $250,000 for winning a gold medal for Russia.
    She would have received a $150,000 bonus for winning a silver medal.[27]"
  4. Germany
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    07 Aug '18 14:11
    Originally posted by @duchess64

    Is there anything wrong with this practice?
    To me, having a national sports team makes about as much sense as having a sports team restricted by ideology, race, ethnicity, hair colour, gender, etc.
  5. Subscriberdivegeester
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    07 Aug '18 14:39
    Let's make the Olympics every man (or woman), (or trans/pan/multi/cross gender) for themselves.

    Second thoughts; it sounds like a mess; lets just scrap it and all go live in a global commune.
  6. Subscriberdivegeester
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    07 Aug '18 14:511 edit
    Let's also scrap any sport which involves and national identity whatsoever; so that's the FIFA World Cup, the Cricket, Tennis, Winter Olympics, Rugby, World Series etc

    Then we should not even have state and town borders so that all the town team games gone, English and all countries football leagues gone. Also we shouldn't encourage college football in the US so that's American football in the bin.

    Maybe we could have 1 v 1 events where for example one person (of no assigned country, town or post code) is the pitcher and another person is the hitter.

    Yep that sounds good.
  7. Joined
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    07 Aug '18 15:08
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    To me, having a national sports team makes about as much sense as having a sports team restricted by ideology, race, ethnicity, hair colour, gender, etc.
    “In the end, international sports competitions are just that: competitions. They're not about peace or friendship. They're symbolic show-downs that are all about winning. They are, however, a far more civilized alternative to out-and-out war. And they are increasingly populated by athletes with friendships that transcend national boundaries. Even if, as irony would have it, many of those friendships developed not because of any choreographed ceremonies or events, but because of an increasingly global marketplace for both amateur and professional athletes.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/03/war-and-peace-at-the-olympic-games/36868/
  8. Joined
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    07 Aug '18 15:132 edits
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    For a person like me...yes. for a person like you...no.
    To D64’s “Is there anything wrong with this practice?”

    You are more insighteful of yourself (maybe/maybe not of D64) than the average bear.
  9. Germany
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    07 Aug '18 15:17
    Originally posted by @js357
    “In the end, international sports competitions are just that: competitions. They're not about peace or friendship. They're symbolic show-downs that are all about winning. They are, however, a far more civilized alternative to out-and-out war. And they are increasingly populated by athletes with friendships that transcend national boundaries. Even if, as irony ...[text shortened]... ps://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/03/war-and-peace-at-the-olympic-games/36868/
    There's also a far more civilized alternative to nationalism: not nationalism.
  10. Joined
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    07 Aug '18 15:571 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    There's also a far more civilized alternative to nationalism: not nationalism.
    The logical conclusion is no ism, but is it sustainable when surrounded by isms? And can it exist without being an enforced ism?
  11. Zugzwang
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    07 Aug '18 19:212 edits
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    To me, having a national sports team makes about as much sense as having a
    sports team restricted by ideology, race, ethnicity, hair colour, gender, etc.
    Why would having a sports team represent a nation be any different from having one
    represent a province, a city, a community, or a neighbourhood?

    "Restricted ...by gender".

    Does KazetNagorra advocate the abolition of all separate sporting events for women?
  12. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    07 Aug '18 20:46
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    To me, having a national sports team makes about as much sense as having a sports team restricted by ideology, race, ethnicity, hair colour, gender, etc.
    How about having sports teams representing cities? Does that make sense?
  13. Germany
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    07 Aug '18 20:46
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Why would having a sports team represent a nation be any different from having one
    represent a province, a city, a community, or a neighbourhood?

    "Restricted ...by gender".

    Does KazetNagorra advocate the abolition of all separate sporting events for women?
    People can do whatever they want in their private time as long as it doesn't adversely affect others. If people want to have a football match of Americans versus Germans, women versus women, Jews versus Muslims, libertarians versus Marxists, gingers versus blondes, etc. etc., I don't care. I only object to the use of my tax money for it.

    Having a separate chess event for women for example just seems patronizing to me, as if women can't compete with men on the same level.
  14. Germany
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    07 Aug '18 20:48
    Originally posted by @sh76
    How about having sports teams representing cities? Does that make sense?
    How about just gathering the best players, coaches, etc. you can find and compete with others who try to do the same?
  15. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    07 Aug '18 21:21
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    How about just gathering the best players, coaches, etc. you can find and compete with others who try to do the same?
    That's all fine and good for casual play, but that's not going to spawn a tens of billions of dollars industry.
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