Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23348
    04 Feb '16 17:042 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    P.S.: If the U.S. abandoned its support of Israel, would our status go up in the world?
    Why would you think that our allies in Western Europe would be pleased if the U.S. stopped supporting the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East? Yes, Israel has some human rights issues but I think compared to most or all other Middle East countries it should be supported as a bulwark against possible Islamist extremism. For those in this forum who dislike Israel, it is not a country that wishes to take over the world and convert the planet.
  2. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    04 Feb '16 17:36
    Originally posted by bill718
    I can't think of any. Sadly, many policy makers in America sincerely mean well in what they are doing, but America has often operated in a heavy handed, and arrogant manner, and this has not helped America's reputation. Some of this hatred is justified, and some of it is not. I guess the same can be said for any powerful country.
    Do you think that for the billions in foreign aid, that the US might have been better served with a Monroe doctrine approach?
  3. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    04 Feb '16 17:38
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Why would you think that our allies in Western Europe would be pleased if the U.S. stopped supporting the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East? Yes, Israel has some human rights issues but I think compared to most or all other Middle East countries it should be supported as a bulwark against possible Islamist extremism. For those in this fo ...[text shortened]... o dislike Israel, it is not a country that wishes to take over the world and convert the planet.
    Its human rights violations are minor compared to those of their neighbors, and most of them are ignored altogether.

    The other mitigating factor is that Israel seldom, if ever initiates these events. They are almost always retaliatory in nature.
  4. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23348
    04 Feb '16 17:541 edit
  5. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23348
    04 Feb '16 17:54
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Its human rights violations are minor compared to those of their neighbors, and most of them are ignored altogether.

    The other mitigating factor is that Israel seldom, if ever initiates these events. They are almost always retaliatory in nature.
    Exactly! This is why I am always appalled when people suggest the U.S. should stop supporting Israel.
  6. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9781
    04 Feb '16 18:09
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Exactly! This is why I am always appalled when people suggest the U.S. should stop supporting Israel.
    For the record, I wasn't suggesting withdrawing or continuing Israeli support. I was only asking if it would change U.S. favorability.
  7. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    04 Feb '16 18:29
    Originally posted by vivify
    For the record, I wasn't suggesting withdrawing or continuing Israeli support. I was only asking if it would change U.S. favorability.
    I don't think so. I do think that minimizing US hegemony, and interference in local hot spots would project a better image, and reduce US hostility. Maybe that's why nobody has asked me to be Secretary of State, and the war mongering ogress from Chappaqua, NY is.
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45756
    04 Feb '16 19:11
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    If the US is so hated why are so many people risking their lives to come to it?
    How many is that then?
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y3ngvdp2
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    04 Feb '16 19:143 edits
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    If the US is so hated why are so many people risking their lives to come to it?
    Because those people are hated back home. The fact that Einstein came to the USA has nothing to do with how Nazi Germany felt about the USA. Peasant mestizos from Mexico aren't particularly loved by the white Hispanic elites in Mexico. Etc.

    Why did your ancestors come to the USA? Because Great Britain hated their Puritan religion.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    40034
    04 Feb '16 19:202 edits
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Its human rights violations are minor compared to those of their neighbors, and most of them are ignored altogether.

    The other mitigating factor is that Israel seldom, if ever initiates these events. They are almost always retaliatory in nature.
    An astonishing assertion.

    Facts just never get in your way.

    Israel has "initiated" an almost five decade (one could reasonably say seven decades) long occupation of other people's land started with a sneak attack. It has violated international law by building settlements on illegally occupied territories in defiance of dozens of UN Security Council resolutions. It has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians in that period while oppressing millions of others on a daily basis.

    And the US has helped pay for it all. I guess your so-called "libertarian" principles fly out the window when push comes to shove.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    40034
    04 Feb '16 19:26
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Why would you think that our allies in Western Europe would be pleased if the U.S. stopped supporting the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East? Yes, Israel has some human rights issues but I think compared to most or all other Middle East countries it should be supported as a bulwark against possible Islamist extremism. For those in this fo ...[text shortened]... o dislike Israel, it is not a country that wishes to take over the world and convert the planet.
    What country does? None.

    Israel is the only country right now that is occupying territory gained by conquest after the UN Charter came into effect and denying the People in that territory the same rights as the rest of its citizens. It's crimes are a cause of Islamist extremism and support for them hardly creates a "bulwark".
  12. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    04 Feb '16 19:281 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder to Normbenign
    An astonishing assertion.

    Facts just never get in your way.

    Israel has "initiated" an almost seven decade long occupation of other people's land started with a sneak attack. It has violated international law by building settlements on illegally occupied territories in defiance of dozens of UN Security Council resolutions. It has kille ...[text shortened]... ll. I guess your so-called "libertarian" principles fly out the window when push comes to shove.
    It's nice to know there are some Americans (Soothfast seems to be another) who have
    *not* been completely 'brainwashed' by the extremely dishonest pro-Israeli propaganda
    that saturates the US media, which is being regurgitated by several Americans in this thread.
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    04 Feb '16 20:20
    Originally posted by Phranny to Vivify
    Why would you think that our allies in Western Europe would be pleased if the U.S. stopped supporting the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East? Yes, Israel has some human rights issues but I think compared to most or all other Middle East countries it should be supported as a bulwark against possible Islamist extremism. For those ...[text shortened]... o dislike Israel, it is not a country that wishes to take over the world and convert the planet.
    Contrary to Phranny's disingenuous pro-Israeli propaganda, US 'allies in western Europe'
    tend to be significantly more critical of Israel's continuing oppression of the Palestinians.
    While Germany might keep giving Israel some (secret) military aid (in technology),
    other western European countries are not subsidizing Israel's military occupation of
    the Palestinians to nearly the same lavish extent that the USA continues to do.

    For the record, Phranny has earlier falsely accused me of hating all Jews.
    I am proud to stand with some of my Jewish friends in opposing Israel and Zionism.
    And I was primarily responsible for RHP allowing its members to display a Palestinian flag.
  14. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    04 Feb '16 20:28
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Why would you think that our allies in Western Europe would be pleased if the U.S. stopped supporting the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East? Yes, Israel has some human rights issues but I think compared to most or all other Middle East countries it should be supported as a bulwark against possible Islamist extremism. For those in this fo ...[text shortened]... o dislike Israel, it is not a country that wishes to take over the world and convert the planet.
    Israel is not "the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East" and most of the US' allies in Western Europe would either not give a damn or be pleased if the US stopped its financial support of the Israeli government.
  15. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    04 Feb '16 20:373 edits
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra to Phranny
    Israel is not "the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East" and most of
    the US' allies in Western Europe would either not give a damn or be pleased if the
    US stopped its financial support of the Israeli government.
    "(Israel is) the only non-Muslim dominated country in the Middle East."
    --Phranny

    Phranny shows her ignorance of Lebanon (which Israel has frequently invaded),
    an Arab country where its constitution gives its (now) Christian minority the same
    predominant political power that it had when it used (decades ago) to be the majority.

    Phranny, an American Jewish supporter of Israel has attempted to make a ludicrous
    argument that western Europeans share the USA's nearly unconditional support of Israel.
    Phranny should attempt to read something other than pro-Israeli propaganda sources.
Back to Top