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Debates Forum

  1. 24 Aug '13 03:49
    North Carolina Republican governor signs worst voter suppression law in the country

    North Carolina’s Gov. Pat McCrory just signed a voter suppression bill that eliminates same-day registration, ends pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds, eliminates one week of early voting, prevents counties from extending voting hours due to long lines or other extraordinary circumstances, scratches college ID cards and other forms of identification from the very short list of acceptable state-issued photo IDs, and outlaws certain types of voter registration drives. The law could serve as a model for radical Republican governors in other states who are bent on rolling back voting rights ahead of the 2014 elections.


    Colin Powell blasts N.C. voting law in front of governor who signed it
    (CNN) – A new voter ID law in North Carolina will end up hurting Republicans among minority voters, former Secretary of State Colin Powell told a gathering of business executives in the state Thursday.

    The retired four-star general, speaking in Raleigh, made his remarks immediately following a session featuring North Carolina's Republican Gov. Pat McCrory, who was a supporter of the new voting measure and signed it into law earlier this month.

    "I want to see policies that encourage every American to vote, not make it more difficult to vote," Powell said, according to the Raleigh News and Observer.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/22/colin-powell-blasts-n-c-voting-law-in-front-of-governor-who-signed-it/

    North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory (R) on Monday signed into law one of the nation’s most wide-ranging Voter ID laws. The move is likely to touch off a major court battle over voting rights, and the Justice Department is weighing a challenge to the new law, which is the first to pass since the U.S. Supreme Court struck down part of the Voting Rights Act.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/08/12/north-carolina-governor-signs-extensive-voter-id-law/
  2. 24 Aug '13 14:32
    The US really needs to do something about voting fraud. I say we need to go to system where you must show valid identification and you can only vote in person. It is more important to keep elections valid than try to find ways that could allow people to vote as conveniently as possible.

    But hey, that's just the way I see it. You may like a system that is easily cheated.
  3. 24 Aug '13 15:15
    Stop the presses! Not allowing 16 year olds to register TWO YEARS before they can vote is suppressing them? Requiring a valid ID instead of a student ID or a library card is a bad thing?
    Those laws aren't suppressing voters.
    I can't begin to describe how much you disgust me.
  4. 24 Aug '13 15:56
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    Stop the presses! Not allowing 16 year olds to register TWO YEARS before they can vote is suppressing them? Requiring a valid ID instead of a student ID or a library card is a bad thing?
    Those laws aren't suppressing voters.
    I can't begin to describe how much you disgust me.
    Probably not as much as this guy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V57lotnKGF8
  5. 24 Aug '13 22:48
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    Stop the presses! Not allowing 16 year olds to register TWO YEARS before they can vote is suppressing them? Requiring a valid ID instead of a student ID or a library card is a bad thing?
    Those laws aren't suppressing voters.
    I can't begin to describe how much you disgust me.
    You must think disgusting you is a bad thing.
  6. 24 Aug '13 23:35
    Originally posted by Eladar
    The US really needs to do something about voting fraud. I say we need to go to system where you must show valid identification and you can only vote in person. It is more important to keep elections valid than try to find ways that could allow people to vote as conveniently as possible.

    But hey, that's just the way I see it. You may like a system that is easily cheated.
    There is no evidence of fraud. Instead, these Republican voter laws including voter ID, eliminating weekend voting, reducing early voting, etc., are about suppressing vote. Even Republicans admit it.
  7. 24 Aug '13 23:38
    Originally posted by Eladar
    The US really needs to do something about voting fraud. I say we need to go to system where you must show valid identification and you can only vote in person. It is more important to keep elections valid than try to find ways that could allow people to vote as conveniently as possible.

    But hey, that's just the way I see it. You may like a system that is easily cheated.
    There is no evidence of fraud. Republicans in state legislatures across the country admit in their fundraisers and strategy sessions that these laws are about reducing the vote of people who tend to vote Democrat. Yet, it is disgusting. And unAmerican.
  8. 25 Aug '13 18:15
    Originally posted by moon1969
    There is no evidence of fraud. Republicans in state legislatures across the country admit in their fundraisers and strategy sessions that these laws are about reducing the vote of people who tend to vote Democrat. Yet, it is disgusting. And unAmerican.
    No evidence of fraud? You weren't paying much attention to the news reports after the last election were you?
  9. 28 Aug '13 03:29
    Originally posted by Eladar
    No evidence of fraud? You weren't paying much attention to the news reports after the last election were you?
    Miniscule at most. What news were you listening to?
  10. 29 Aug '13 00:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Miniscule at most. What news were you listening to?
    That’s what the data indicates. The argument seems to be whether efforts to prevent that fraud will end up (1) disenfranchising a greater number of legitimate voters than those who commit fraud, and (2) whether or not such disenfranchisement is discriminatory by various criteria (e.g., race, age, gender, political affiliation).

    EDIT: And how easy or difficult it should be for any eligible person to vote.
  11. 29 Aug '13 00:52
    Originally posted by moon1969
    [b]North Carolina Republican governor signs worst voter suppression law in the country

    North Carolina’s Gov. Pat McCrory just signed a voter suppression bill that eliminates same-day registration, ends pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds, eliminates one week of early voting, prevents counties from extending voting hours due to long lines or oth ...[text shortened]... t.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/08/12/north-carolina-governor-signs-extensive-voter-id-law/[/b]
    Moonshot makes another lying thread title.
  12. 29 Aug '13 00:55
    Originally posted by moon1969
    There is no evidence of fraud. Instead, these Republican voter laws including voter ID, eliminating weekend voting, reducing early voting, etc., are about suppressing vote. Even Republicans admit it.
    How hard is it to present a valid ID? How about if you are driving and a cop demands you show your license?
  13. 29 Aug '13 01:02
    Originally posted by vistesd
    That’s what the data indicates. The argument seems to be whether efforts to prevent that fraud will end up (1) disenfranchising a greater number of legitimate voters than those who commit fraud, and (2) whether or not such disenfranchisement is discriminatory by various criteria (e.g., race, age, gender, political affiliation).

    EDIT: And how easy or difficult it should be for any eligible person to vote.
    Every State, or at least most of them, have provisions for free State picture IDs. In a great many States, guys on the street will get you one if you are an illegal alien.

    Underaged people put forth effort to get phony IDs so that they can drink, but with motor voter, most under 21 fail to use the franchise anyway. Every duplicate or fraudulent vote, negates a legitimate one, so how is an effort to validate a voter's authenticity not actually protecting the franchise?
  14. 29 Aug '13 14:44
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Every State, or at least most of them, have provisions for free State picture IDs. In a great many States, guys on the street will get you one if you are an illegal alien.

    Underaged people put forth effort to get phony IDs so that they can drink, but with motor voter, most under 21 fail to use the franchise anyway. Every duplicate or fraudulent vote, ...[text shortened]... , so how is an effort to validate a voter's authenticity not actually protecting the franchise?
    With regard to “free” (or cheap), fees are not the only economic cost involved. Here is a 2012 report from the Brennan Center for Justice: http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification.

    In at least some states that enacted voter ID laws, what were originally difficult or costly requirements (such as obtaining an out-of-state birth certificate—which some elderly people especially those born in rural areas, were simply unable to do) were removed precisely because some people looked into the details (rather than relying on generalities) and protested them.

    With regard to your point about each fraudulent vote negating a legitimate one, the data does not seem to support such a one-to-one correspondence—hence my point (1) above. With regard to my point (2), surely you would support measures to remove such discriminatory bias in the laws, where it exists.
  15. 29 Aug '13 15:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    The US really needs to do something about voting fraud. I say we need to go to system where you must show valid identification and you can only vote in person. It is more important to keep elections valid than try to find ways that could allow people to vote as conveniently as possible.

    But hey, that's just the way I see it. You may like a system that is easily cheated.
    Actually, there is very little voter fraud. Between 2000 and 2010 there were 649 million votes cast in general elections and 13 cases of in-person voter impersonation. The GOP is trying to disenfrachise people. It's the only way they can hope to win major elections. Now that is disgusting!