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  1. 22 Oct '15 01:55
    Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu has provoked outrage among both
    historians and the general public for attempting to shift the blame for
    the Holocaust from Hitler and the Nazis to a Palestinian Muslim leader.
    Actually, Zionist propaganda has long attempted to demonize the
    1940s grand mufti of Jerusalem as an anti-Semitic figure comparable
    in evil to Hitler. To its credit, Germany's government rejected Netanyahu's
    attempt to absolve Germany (and Hitler) of blame to some extent and
    assign that blame to a dead Palestinian figure, though by extension
    of the usual Zionist propaganda, also to all Palestinians.

    http:/./www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/21/netanyahu-under-fire-for-palestinian-grand-mufi-holocaust-claim

    "Anger at Netanyahu claim Palestinian grand mufti inspired Holocaust"
    --Peter Beaumont (21 October 2015)

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/21/germany-refuses-accept-binjamin-netanyahu-claim-adolf-hitler-holocaust

    "Germany refuses to accept Netanyahu's claim Palestinian inspired Holocaust"
    --Kate Connolly (21 October 2015)

    This incident shows that Netanyahu's ready to lie about the Holocaust
    in service of his racist political agenda of demonizing the Palestinians.
    Why has Israel's Prime Minister become an apologist for Hitler and the Nazis?

    "By exculpating the Germans and incriminating a Muslim, he (Netanyahu)
    is hoping to win friends (for Israel) among European Islamophobes."
    --Alan Posener (German journalist)
  2. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    22 Oct '15 03:54 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu has provoked outrage among both
    historians and the general public for attempting to shift the blame for
    the Holocaust from Hitler and the Nazis to a Palestinian Muslim leader.
    Actually, Zionist propaganda has long attempted to demonize the
    1940s grand mufti of Jerusalem as an anti-Semitic figure comparable
    in evil to ...[text shortened]... g to win friends (for Israel) among European Islamophobes."
    --Alan Posener (German journalist)
    Prime Minister Netanyahu's remark is that of an angry old man who's been in power too long. He doesn't deal well with the setbacks and disappointments that go with his job. I hope the voters in Israel see this in the next election, and replace him.
  3. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    22 Oct '15 04:14
    You beat me to it!
    I was going to subject the thread: the nazi's weren't responsible: holocaust denier Netanyahoo declares.

    What an unbelievable twat that man is.
  4. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    22 Oct '15 04:16
    On a side note, I do find it rather bizarre to hear Merkel state: 'no, we did it!'.
    Sort of like thhr most shameful boast in history.
  5. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    22 Oct '15 12:30
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    On a side note, I do find it rather bizarre to hear Merkel state: 'no, we did it!'.
    Sort of like thhr most shameful boast in history.
    Would you prefer that she denied it?
  6. 22 Oct '15 12:45
    The Grand Mufti was wanted as a Nazi war criminal, but evaded capture.

    His ties to the current Palestinian movement include his nephew, Yassar Arafat. In fact, Yassar changed his name in the attempt to run from his uncles past.

    However, I also think it naïve to think that the Grand Mufti was responsible for the Holocaust. Looking at the anti-Semitic nature of Europe for two centuries prior, it would seem to me that the Holocaust was but a natural climax to such Jew hatred.

    In fact, most Europeans continue to discuss how to address the Jewish question on these boards. They seem obsessed with them.
  7. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    22 Oct '15 15:44
    Originally posted by bill718
    Would you prefer that she denied it?
    Now, that would have made for some interesting politics!

    No, but she didn't have to form an opinion. Good on her for doing so, but it is strange to hear.
  8. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    22 Oct '15 16:48
    Originally posted by bill718
    Prime Minister Netanyahu's remark is that of an angry old man who's been in power too long. He doesn't deal well with the setbacks and disappointments that go with his job. I hope the voters in Israel see this in the next election, and replace him.
    So how true is this story? Does it hold up to historical scrutiny?
  9. 22 Oct '15 18:07
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So how true is this story? Does it hold up to historical scrutiny?
    Yours seems to be the only unemotional and logical question.
  10. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    22 Oct '15 18:18
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So how true is this story? Does it hold up to historical scrutiny?
    Seemingly it doesn't.
    The mufti was very opposed to Jewish rule in Palestine (and thus very anti-English... Just for being there, I presume). He sided with the nazi's, tried to get them to agree with an Arab league sort of a thing, but they wouldn't bite. If memory serves me correctly, which it doesn't, so take this with a pinch of salt, the nazis weren't convinced of the man's self-claimed ability to unite the Arab people.

    Funnily enough, probably the only reasonable assumption Hitler ever made.
  11. 22 Oct '15 18:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse to Bill718 (a non-historian)
    So how true is this story? Does it hold up to historical scrutiny?
    Sonhouse, did you bother to read the articles that I cited? Did you bother to read that
    historians (including Israeli Jews) already have condemned Netanyahu for distorting history?
    Do you prefer to heed the opinions of non-historians because they are white American men like yourself?
    Are you (Sonhouse) gullible enough to be fooled by Netanyahu, who even many
    Israeli Jewish voters already know is a habitual liar?

    As a historian with some expertise on the Second World War (though the Holocaust is not
    my specialty), I can say that Hitler would have attempted to implement the genocide
    of *the Jews and other peoples* even if the grand mufti of Jerusalem had not existed.
    Hitler and the Nazis also attempted to commit genocide against the Roma (Gypsies),
    but Netanyahu did not attempt to blame the grand mufti for inciting that genocide.
    (It's too implausible to argue that the grand mufti had a hateful anti-Roma agenda.)
    Netanyahu could not care less about the Roma, then or now (there's much bigotry in
    Europe against the Roma), and he presumably would like most ignorant Americans to
    keep believing that the Jews were the *only people* to be the victims of Nazi genocide.
  12. 22 Oct '15 18:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    You beat me to it!
    I was going to subject the thread: the nazi's weren't responsible: holocaust denier Netanyahoo declares.
    What an unbelievable twat that man is.
    Shavixmir, you are welcome to share the 'thumbs down' from my haters after I created this thread.
  13. 22 Oct '15 18:57 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by shavixmir to Sonhouse
    Seemingly it doesn't.
    The mufti was very opposed to Jewish rule in Palestine (and thus very anti-English... Just for being there, I presume). He sided with the nazi's, tried to get them to agree with an Arab league sort of a thing, but they wouldn't bite. If memory serves me correctly, which it doesn't, so take this with a pinch of salt, the n ...[text shortened]... te the Arab people.

    Funnily enough, probably the only reasonable assumption Hitler ever made.
    The grand mufti of Jerusalem's historical importance has been vastly exaggerated by
    Zionist propaganda, which aims to demonize the Palestinians.

    On a general note (not about the grand mufti in particular), Hitler's foreign policy had
    to take into account the fundamental hostility between Turkey and the Arab nationalists.
    Hitler perceived Turkey as a vital potential ally (or at least a useful neutral) against the USSR.
    The UK (led by Churchill) was doing its utmost to persuade Turkey to join the Allies.
    Turkey loathed Arab nationalism, hoping to dominate some Arab regions (such as
    oil-rich northern Iraq) itself someday. Turkey would have preferred that the Arabs
    remain under Western colonial rule rather than establish strong independent Arab states.
    So, in order to avoid antagonizing Turkey and pushing it into the Allied camp, Hitler
    gave at most token support to any Arab nationalist uprisings against the British.
    Hitler decided it was better to appear as a friend of Turkey than of Arab nationalists.

    As a historian, I know more about this subject that any journalist you are likely to find.
  14. 22 Oct '15 19:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Sonhouse, did you bother to read the articles that I cited? Did you bother to read that
    historians (including Israeli Jews) already have condemned Netanyahu for distorting history?
    Do you prefer to heed the opinions of non-historians because they are white American men like yourself?
    Are you (Sonhouse) gullible enough to be fooled by Netanyahu, who eve ...[text shortened]... cans to
    keep believing that the Jews were the *only people* to be the victims of Nazi genocide.
    Duchess64, As a self professed "historian with some expertise on the Second World War " are you aware that in 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti ( Hajj Amin al-Husseini ) as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary ?
  15. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    22 Oct '15 19:33
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Shavixmir, you are welcome to share the 'thumbs down' from my haters after I created this thread.
    Thumbs down are the thick man's argument.

    Don't let the bastards grind you down!