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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 04 Jul '10 15:46 / 2 edits
    As we all know, the term "liberal" is toxic in American politics. The term is associated with moral permissiveness, being soft on crime, being weak on defense, unbridled spending and taxing, adding to Big Government, etc. So what has the liberal done to remedy this situation? He has simply renamed himself "progressive". However, after the recent track record of the "progressive" movement, has the term or will the term soon become toxic as well? Will a new term be required? If so, any suggestions?
  2. 04 Jul '10 15:49
    How about these terms:

    educated, reasonable or enlightened?
  3. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    04 Jul '10 15:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    As we all know, the term "liberal" is toxic in American politics.
    Are the words 'progressive' and 'liberal' "toxic" among progressives and liberals in American politics?
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    04 Jul '10 15:58
    Originally posted by Eladar
    How about these terms:

    educated, reasonable or enlightened?
    Ignorance and emotional/ideological darkness do seem to envelop many 'conservatives' and so often this seems to render them incapable of being reasonable, tolerant or inclusive.
  5. 04 Jul '10 16:00 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Are the words 'progressive' and 'liberal' "toxic" among progressives and liberals in American politics?
    Yes they are, they know that they won't get elected this cycle if they are associated with them.
  6. 04 Jul '10 16:05
    Perhaps it would be better, whodey, if you stop seeing politics and ideals in a simple onedimensional view.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    04 Jul '10 16:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Yes they are, they know that they won't get elected this cycle if they are associated with them.
    So, in your view, progressive and liberal Americans who seek progressives and liberals to represent them see their own values and principles as "toxic"? It seems a little far fetched.
  8. 04 Jul '10 16:33
    If they don't, then they have their heads in the sand. At the moment being a progressive is political death. People want to slow down government spending and get things under control. You see the same thing in Europe. I think the world has come to grips with the idea that there simply isn't enough money to give everyone what they want. We can't afford to support people from crib to grave. At some point we have to get people to work.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    04 Jul '10 16:39
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If they don't, then they have their heads in the sand. At the moment being a progressive is political death.
    You don't seem to understand the question I am asking you. Do you seriously think that progressive/liberal American citizens who seek to be represented by progressive/liberal politicians look upon their own values and principles as "toxic"?
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    04 Jul '10 16:45
    Originally posted by whodey
    As we all know, the term "liberal" is toxic in American politics. The term is associated with moral permissiveness, being soft on crime, being weak on defense, unbridled spending and taxing, adding to Big Government, etc. So what has the liberal done to remedy this situation? He has simply renamed himself "progressive". However, after the recent track rec ...[text shortened]... the term soon become toxic as well? Will a new term be required? If so, any suggestions?
    As far as OP blurbs go, this one goes way way beyond a standard "poisoning of the well". If ever there was evidence that so many of your posts are in fact 'vanity posts' and not genuine attempts to start a debate, then this is it.
  11. 04 Jul '10 16:51
    I am answering your question. Personally, of course they don't, but if they are aware of the present situation here in the US, then they know the titles are toxic.

    Everyone knows that at this point, the economic hawks are in command.

    Obama was elected because people hated the results of Bush's decisions(Bush was no Conservative). Conservatives will be elected because the people hate the results of Obama's decisions. Both of these Presidents made the faulty assumption that since they were elected, the people wanted to see their point of view enacted. In both of these cases, the men were elected because people rejected the person running against him.


    In case you were unware of this fact, in the US conservatives out number liberals by 2 to 1. Even so, it is the people in the middle who determine the results of elections. The people in the middle are neither conservatives nor liberals and will vote for the lesser of two evils.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    04 Jul '10 17:02
    Originally posted by Eladar
    In case you were unware of this fact, in the US conservatives out number liberals by 2 to 1.
    I thought it was 'conservatives plus moderates outnumber liberals 2 to 1'. Which of course also means 'liberals plus moderates outnumber conservatives 2 to 1'. But what of it? I see you are in a kind of party political broadcast mode - which of course is your prerogative - and not being an America, it isn't such an interesting debate for me. I am not an Obama supporter, nor am I likely to support whoever beats him in 2012 or 2016.
  13. 04 Jul '10 17:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    I thought it was 'conservatives plus moderates outnumber liberals 2 to 1'. Which of course also means 'liberals plus moderates outnumber conservatives 2 to 1'. But what of it? I see you are in a kind of party political broadcast mode - which of course is your prerogative - and not being an America, it isn't such an interesting debate for me. I am not an Obama supporter, nor am I likely to support whoever beats him in 2012 or 2016.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    04 Jul '10 17:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx
    What does it say at the linked site? That 60-70% of Americans describe themselves as "conservatives"?
  15. 04 Jul '10 17:11
    Only if you are so slanted that you think that anything but liberal is conservative.