Originally posted by finneganI'm not aware that the EU's position that a trade agreement cannot be negotiated simultaneously with the separation agreement is supported by article 50. While I agree that the Conservatives have been digging a hole for themselves, the EU appear to wish to be difficult.
May claims the referendum result was clear and May's hard Brexit is the correct approach. In reality the result was a narrow one and many who voted Leave relied on the assurance that the UK could remain within the customs union after leaving the EU - a most uncertain prospect.
She claims that parliamentary opposition is damaging her work for the countr ...[text shortened]... tation of an agreement that does not exist.
But listen to the full account on the video.[/b]
Originally posted by finneganThe English have gone mad, mad I say!
Worth hearing this detailed explanation of the fallacies and lies in May's claims to justify her snap election.
Her strategy is unrealistic and not feasible and it will crash and burn. Raising such absurd expectations actually harms Bitain's negotiating position and undermines the national interest.
Originally posted by AshiitakaWhere does your 90% come from?
After returning to be just like 90% of the countries in the world, the whole country is going to fall to ruins.
This is From Jeremy Cliffe the Berlin Bureau Chief at The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/kaffeeklatsch) - Citing [FAZ](faz.net) - http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/eu-kommission-skeptisch-vor-brexit-verhandlungen-14993673.html
1) May had said she wanted to talk not just Brexit but also world problems; but in practice it fell to Juncker to propose one to discuss.
2) May has made clear to the Commission that she fully expects to be reelected as PM.
3) It is thought [in the Commission] that May wants to frustrate the daily business of the EU27, to improve her own negotiating position.
4) May seemed pissed off at Davis for regaling her dinner guests of his ECJ case against her data retention measures - three times.
5) EU side were astonished at May's suggestion that EU/UK expats issue could be sorted at EU Council meeting at the end of June.
6) Juncker objected to this timetable as way too optimistic given complexities, eg on rights to health care.
7) Juncker pulled two piles of paper from his bag: Croatia's EU entry deal, Canada's free trade deal. His point: Brexit will be v v complex.
8) May wanted to work through the Brexit talks in monthly, 4-day blocks; all confidential until the end of the process.
9) Commission said impossible to reconcile this with need to square off member states & European Parliament, so documents must be published.
10) EU side felt May was seeing whole thing through rose-tinted-glasses. "Let us make Brexit a success" she told them.
11) Juncker countered that Britain will now be a third state, not even (like Turkey) in the customs union: "Brexit cannot be a success".
12) May seemed surprised by this and seemed to the EU side not to have been fully briefed.
13) She cited her own JHA opt-out negotiations as home sec as a model: a mutually useful agreement meaning lots on paper, little in reality.
14) May's reference to the JHA (justice and home affairs) opt-outs set off alarm signals for the EU side. This was what they had feared.
15) ie as home sec May opted out of EU measures (playing to UK audience) then opted back in, and wrongly thinks she can do same with Brexit
16) "The more I hear, the more sceptical I become" said Juncker (this was only half way through the dinner)
17) May then insisted to Juncker et al that UK owes EU no money because there is nothing to that effect in the treaties.
18) Her guests then informed her that the EU is not a golf club
19) Davis then objected that EU could not force a post-Brexit, post-ECJ UK to pay the bill. OK, said Juncker, then no trade deal.
20) ...leaving EU27 with UK's unpaid bills will involve national parliaments in process (a point that Berlin had made repeatedly before).
21) "I leave Downing St ten times as sceptical as I was before" Juncker told May as he left
22) Next morning at c7am Juncker called Merkel on her mobile, said May living in another galaxy & totally deluding herself
23) Merkel quickly reworked her speech to Bundestag to include her now-famous "some in Britain still have illusions" comment
24) FAZ concludes: May in election mode & playing to crowd, but what use is a big majority won by nurturing delusions of Brexit hardliners?
25) Juncker's team now think it more likely than not that Brexit talks will collapse & hope Brits wake up to harsh realities in time.
26) What to make of it all? Obviously this leak is a highly tactical move by Commission. But contents deeply worrying for UK nonetheless.
27) The report points to major communications/briefing problems. Important messages from Berlin & Brussels seem not to be getting through.
28) Presumably as a result, May seems to be labouring under some really rather fundamental misconceptions about Brexit & the EU27.
29) Also clear that (as some of us have been warning for a while...) No 10 should expect every detail of the Brexit talks to leak.
Originally posted by finneganEveryone is tired of your arrogant hypocrisy. Did you know that the 1970's labour party's (which you love and adore) official policy was to withdraw from the EEC? It's only new labour (which you despise) that is europhilic. Smell the contradiction?
Internal notes recording May's attempt at Brexit talks. Pretty dismal reading from https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/68j43p/todays_faz_report_on_mays_disastrous_dinner_with/.
This is From Jeremy Cliffe the Berlin Bureau Chief at The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/kaffeeklatsch) - Citing [FAZ](faz.net) - http://www.faz.net/akt ...[text shortened]... en warning for a while...) No 10 should expect every detail of the Brexit talks to leak.
Originally posted by AshiitakaI consistently opposed Brexit. I have no plans to change. There is no hypocrisy - only your inability to get past the slogan chanting of a football terrace.
Everyone is tired of your arrogant hypocrisy. Did you know that the 1970's labour party's (which you love and adore) official policy was to withdraw from the EEC? It's only new labour (which you despise) that is europhilic. Smell the contradiction?
Originally posted by finneganstill awaiting a response from #Toryboy #tikka
Where does your 90% come from?
What does it even mean? Can we have an explanation?
Which countries do you imagine are not members of trade agreements?
Get informed: Click on a country or territory on the map given at this link to see its participation in Regional Trade Agreements.
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/rta_participa ...[text shortened]... f course, with customers like Saudi Arabia or Libya, but what else have the Tories left us with?
Originally posted by finneganOh you won't get one, since I didn't bother reading it. With a little bit of twist anyone can turn facts into a story to suit their needs. You are a master at this. Don't worry, it's not a crime, everybody does it, but you just have to learn to filter unreliable sources that have said twist. Thus I don't read what you write.
still awaiting a response from #Toryboy #tikka
Originally posted by AshiitakaMay's notion that she can negotiate some kind of deal with the EU that allows U.K. businesses favourable access to the vital EU market without forking over billions of U.K. taxpayer money is utterly naive. The EU wants as few obstructions to trade between the EU and the U.K. as possible, but is in a vastly stronger negotiating position and the U.K. simply cannot afford to walk away. If May can get access to the EU market on terms approaching the single market but without freedom of movement she would be lucky to have it cost only 50 billion. Either way, she will screw over either U.K. businesses or the U.K. taxpayer, and we all know where the Tories' priorities are in this regard.
Brussels' ridiculous united Ireland clause (Northern Ireland remains 80% unionist), stupid beyond all belief claim to Gibraltar, Goading the SNP and undermining the UK, giving every single EU member a veto over the final deal and demands for an outrageous concocted bill of 50 billion euros not even for a trade deal, but for talks on a trade deal to start! ...[text shortened]... abrupt death, and I am more glad than ever that we are leaving, once again ahead of the curve.