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  1. 21 Mar '10 10:09
    Stalin's Jews

    We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

    Published: 12.21.06, 23:35 / Israel Opinion

    Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.



    Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.



    We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.



    Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.



    In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.



    Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.



    All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened
    to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.



    And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."



    Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.



    Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.



    Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.



    In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.



    The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.



    Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.

    Sever Plocker

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Mar '10 10:19
    Originally posted by living in a cave
    We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
    Well we know that the millions of Jews that were murdered in the Holocaust were murdered because they were Jews.

    Are you suggesting that that the Jews who number among the greatest murderers of modern times were murderers [i]because[/b] they were Jews?
  3. 21 Mar '10 10:22 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well we know that the millions of Jews that were murdered in the Holocaust were murdered because they were Jews.

    Are you suggesting that that the Jews who number among the greatest murderers of modern times were murderers [i]because
    they were Jews?[/b]
    not at all. people are people. it is brainwashing that does the most damage.


    Is that what you infer from the article? Do you think Sever Plocker is implying that?

    edit) i posted it as i think it is a good article for energy in a debate subforum
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Mar '10 10:42
    Originally posted by living in a cave
    it is brainwashing that does the most damage.
    What is it you want to debate here?
  5. 21 Mar '10 11:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    What is it you want to debate here?
    the article.

    i am in the opinion that i totally agree with Sever Plocker's Title line sentiment.

    i think he wrote it that way as a statement implying it was, at least sometimes, not what was being, conversely, something that was 'not remembered'.

    I thought this was?is an interesting comment for him to have made and thought that a debate might spring from there or so.

    i understand i am not making many friends. i just thought - i"m playing chess it seems like a pretty big forum and i"ll post a few threads - i was thinking more along the lines of something like wrongplanet or so / i didnt mean to cause offense or seem like a poppycock. it"s more of a round a fire feeling here seemingly.

    as long as the tinfoil is only for potatos.

    all i can say is you dont have to read them / you can assail them / let assailing of me personally would be favourable but i am not counting on it/ "you" can report me as a troll and get me banned-someone already tried to facilitate that bless their godly soul/ i dunno/ i dont mind/ i didnt think it would be such a problem. i thought it was much busier i guess tbh as there are a lot of site members. what can you do?

    i dont mind. as said. i dont have to post anything. i myself, like going to boards and reading interesting articles and what people say about them.

    i propose a debate based squarely on the article"s title.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Mar '10 11:12
    Originally posted by living in a cave
    not at all. people are people. it is brainwashing that does the most damage.
    Who exactly is brainwashed? Brainwashed about what? By whom?
  7. 21 Mar '10 11:20
    Why musn't we forget that some of the greatest murderers were jews?
  8. 21 Mar '10 11:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Who exactly is brainwashed? Brainwashed about what? By whom?
    any humans being thought into committing mass murder whether as in individual acts or in systematic groups.

    the article, i think, is him saying that the fact Jew's ALSO have been amongst some of the twentieth century's worst perpetrators of infamous horrifying crimes within the context of Stalinist purges or the Holomodor etc. *

    An extension of that possibly could be "not just victims' of horror

    * not to omit mention of Ukraine's bloody past in other times.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Mar '10 11:32 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by living in a cave
    any humans being thought into committing mass murder whether as in individual acts or in systematic groups.
    You see Jews as a "systematic group"? In what way are you saying that they are "systematic" in the way that they murder?
  10. 21 Mar '10 11:36 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Why musn't we forget that some of the greatest murderers were jews?
    it is implicit in the article.

    TV ads in Boettke presided south africa. offensive or not? My point is that when extreme acts of population control with prejudice are enacted it could be a symptom of forgetting what the author of the article asks people not to forget.. IE when they they are concurrent. .. the acts and the lack of rememberence. and in this case that isn't Jews as victim's of horrific acts but perpetrators.

    I think that he has a salient point. Do you not think so? If not, why so and if so why?

    edit) humble apologies for making it so binary. i dearly hope you will not rebuke me too savagely!
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Mar '10 11:38
    Originally posted by living in a cave
    in this case that isn't Jews as victim's of horrific acts but perpetrators.
    Why do you think their Jewishness is relevant?
  12. 21 Mar '10 12:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    You see Jews as a "systematic group"? In what way are you saying that they are "systematic" in the way that they murder?
    no. not at all. I thought Stalinism was systematic in it"s approaches to genocide.
  13. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Mar '10 12:18
    Originally posted by living in a cave
    no. not at all. I thought Stalinism was systematic in it"s approaches to genocide.
    So what's that got to do with Jewishness?
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    21 Mar '10 12:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by living in a cave
    i am in the opinion that i totally agree with Sever Plocker's Title line sentiment.
    So did www.stormfront.org apparently, because they published it too.

    David Duke thinks highly of Sever Plocker too, I see him cited at http://www.davidduke.com.

    Plocker seems to have found himself a niche.
  15. 21 Mar '10 14:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    So did [b]www.stormfront.org apparently, because they published it too.

    David Duke thinks highly of Sever Plocker too, I see him cited at http://www.davidduke.com.

    Plocker seems to have found himself a niche.[/b]
    i am neither a white nationalist nor a white supremacist nor a white separatist.

    huhu - someone posts an article from YNET and you compare them to David Duke and stormfront .

    How on earth do you know I am not Jewish and would find your likening me to David Duke kinda offensive?

    How would you know that at this point? or is it a case of the kneejerks ؟

    Obviously Plocker is part of a self hating Jew phenomena by your reasoning, no need to listen to what he is saying.