Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    26 Feb '17 23:40
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/21/no-wives-withholding-sex-are-not-to-blame-for-male-violence

    "No, wives 'withholding sex' are not to blame for male violence:
    Publishing an article that normalises sexual assault in relationships is
    not only wrong, it is dangerous – the Daily Mail should know better."
    --Laura Bates

    "Wives who don’t have enough sex with their husbands are partly to
    blame for men committing sexual assault, according to an article
    published by the Daily Mail. The writer, Dr Catherine Hakim, claims
    that “decent” husbands whose wives “starve” them of sex are driven to
    affairs and “forced to seek relief elsewhere”, resulting in “a profoundly
    negative effect on our society – fracturing families and potentially
    leading to violence and crime.”

    “Sexually starved men,” says Hakim, offering no evidence to back up
    this claim, “are more likely to visit prostitutes, view pornography and, in
    the worst cases, even molest other women.” She later reiterates the
    supposed connection between sex-deprived husbands and sexual
    violence, writing: “Men, as we know in our heart of hearts, will have
    affairs, or perhaps even worse, when faced with sexual starvation and
    the inevitable resentment that causes.”

    "The conclusion readers are encouraged to draw is clear: poor, sex-
    obsessed men have no control over their own actions and no choice but
    to turn to affairs or sexual assault when marital sex is not available. No
    matter that such a ridiculous argument utterly relieves perpetrators of
    responsibility and is insulting to other men. Never mind that it ignores
    everything we know about rape, which is an act of power and control
    rather than sexual attraction. Or that it erases male victims and the
    existence of unmarried rapists. Or that it collapses in the face of the
    reality that 90% of offenders are already known to their victims,
    suggesting that many women are still raped by their own husbands."

    "But perhaps most worrying of all, the article will also be read by men, to
    whom it sends a clear message. You are not in control of your actions.
    You are not to blame. Your wife owes you sex whether she feels like it
    or not because you are a man and it is what you need and deserve. And
    if she doesn’t oblige, it is reasonable or even inevitable for you to have
    an affair, or to sexually assault another woman (a natural progression).
    It’s not your fault, she pushed you into it."
  2. Joined
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    26 Feb '17 23:511 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/21/no-wives-withholding-sex-are-not-to-blame-for-male-violence

    "No, wives 'withholding sex' are not to blame for male violence:
    Publishing an article that normalises sexual assault in relationships is
    not only wrong, it is dangerous – the Daily Mail should know better."
    --Laura Bates

    "Wives who d ...[text shortened]... y assault another woman (a natural progression).
    It’s not your fault, she pushed you into it."
    You need to be posting this to a Muslim site. The kinds of Muslims from 3rd world nations would greatly benefit.

    I doubt a single guy here is guilty of sexual assault. I know I am not.

    Perhaps your next family reunion would be a great place to bring it up.
  3. Joined
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    27 Feb '17 00:11
    As for porn and prostitutes, the article probably has a better point.

    But hey, in many places prostitution is legal and so is porn so I don't know why you would be upset about that. You should be upset about those things being labeled as wrong.
  4. Standard membervivify
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    27 Feb '17 00:126 edits
    The article doesn't seem to excuse men for violence, but discuss what can contribute to it. I agree that you can't blame women for male violence; however, I don't think analyzing the motivations behind male violence (sexual or otherwise) is a bad thing.

    Case in point: a man rapes his wife, he deserves to go to jail. Case closed. Still, examining why that man raped his wife, in of itself, doesn't put blame on the woman; it simply opens up the discussion as to what factors helped contribute to the situation.

    The dilemma is that there's no "safe" way to look at how a wife could contribute to being a victim of violence, because it's inevitable that such info will be misused (like to blame the woman). There's often a build-up to domestic violence, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. That build-up is worth investigation. The problem is that such investigation is impossible to conduct, without making the woman feel guilty. Until we can find a way to investigate the build-up to male violence without making the victims feel guilty, or without any possibility for blame-shifting toward the victim, this is a conversation that can't be had.
  5. Zugzwang
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    27 Feb '17 00:132 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You need to be posting this to a Muslim site. The kinds of Muslims from 3rd world nations would greatly benefit.

    I doubt a single guy here is guilty of sexual assault. I know I am not.
    Perhaps your next family reunion would be a great place to bring it up.
    The lying rape apologist Eladar keeps showing his extreme racism and bigotry.

    "A couple goes out and gets drunk. She passes out and the boyfriend has sex with her anyhow.
    Sounds like something that might happen and most people would not consider rape."
    --Eladar

    Mike Ulmer, a white American Christian pastor, has been charged with
    rape or sexual assault against two girls so far.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/pastor-ties-rapes-teen-picked-school-article-1.2980318

    "Tennessee pastor ties up and rapes teen he picked up outside her school."

    "HENDERSON, Tenn. — Police say a teacher's assistant and preacher tied up and
    raped an 18-year-old student inside his western Tennessee home.

    Citing court documents, news outlets report that 53-year-old Mike Ulmer was charged
    last week with two counts of rape and one count of sexual assault.
    Ulmer is the pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Henderson."

    http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/23/new-assault-charges-chester-county-baptist-minister/98320534/

    "New assault charges for Chester County Baptist minister."

    "Mike Ulmer, 53, is charged with assault after a girl told police Tuesday
    that she had been abused by Ulmer."

    "Court documents say the girl told investigators that Ulmer "was holding
    her head down in his lap and forced her mouth open."
    The girl recorded the incident on her cell phone from her pocket
    because she "felt like he was going to do something to her that night,"
    according to court documents."

    "Court documents say the recording is several minutes long and Ulmer
    can be heard ordering the girl to open her mouth.
    The girl can be heard in the recording asking Ulmer to stop several
    times, court documents say.
    The recording includes Ulmer telling the girl to apologize to him and
    ordering her to give him a hug, according to court document."

    Should Americans be worried about the ideology toward women being
    propagated by white American Christian pastors like Mike Ulmer?

    When the troll Eladar start arguing that Mike Ulmer really was be a Muslim in disguise?
  6. Joined
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    27 Feb '17 00:211 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The lying rape apologist Eladar keeps showing his extreme racism and bigotry.

    "A couple goes out and gets drunk. She passes out and the boyfriend has sex with her anyhow.
    Sounds like something that might happen and most people would not consider rape."
    --Eladar

    Mike Ulmer, a white American Christian pastor, has been charged with
    rape or sexual a ...[text shortened]... lmer?

    When the troll Eladar start arguing that Mike Ulmer really was be a Muslim in disguise?
    Where did I lie? Who is it that posts here is guilty of sexual assault?
  7. Standard membervivify
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    27 Feb '17 00:21
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I doubt a single guy here is guilty of sexual assault. I know I am not.
    You have a narrower definition of sexual assault than some people. It's possible you committed an act which isn't sexual assault in your mind, but would still be something you'd be convicted of; possibly involving alcohol.
  8. Account suspended
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    27 Feb '17 00:27
    One is of course reminded of the Bibles wise counsel.

    'Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time' - 1 Corinthians 7:5
  9. Joined
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    27 Feb '17 00:29
    Originally posted by vivify
    You have a narrower definition of sexual assault than some people. It's possible you committed an act which isn't sexual assault in your mind, but would still be something you'd be convicted of; possibly involving alcohol.
    Sexual assault is a legal term.

    Remember, I am a fundamentalist Christian, so my sexual activity is much lower than the average. I have never forced myself on my wife. So there goes your theory.

    Do you have first hand knowledge of a person here who is guilty of sexual assault?
  10. Zugzwang
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    27 Feb '17 00:311 edit
    Originally posted by vivify to Eladar
    You have a narrower definition of sexual assault than some people. It's possible you committed an act which isn't sexual assault in your mind,
    but would still be something you'd be convicted of; possibly involving alcohol.
    Eladar has a self-serving different definition of rape than US laws have today.
    Many, if not most, rapists like to pretend that their crimes were not rape.

    And it's generally accepted by academics and law enforcement authoriities that only
    a small minority of rapes ever result in criminal convctions for rape in the USA.

    According to his own words, Donald Trump committed sexual assault, though he never has been convicted.
  11. Joined
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    27 Feb '17 00:33
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    One is of course reminded of the Bibles wise counsel.

    'Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time' - 1 Corinthians 7:5
    Women don't like that one.
  12. Joined
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    27 Feb '17 00:341 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Eladar has a self-serving different definition of rape than US laws have today.
    Many, if not most, rapists like to pretend that their crimes were not rape.

    And it's generally accepted by academics and law enforcement authoriities that only
    a small minority of rapes ever result in criminal convctions for rape in the USA.

    According to his own words, Donald Trump committed sexual assault, though he never has been convicted.
    Yes or no question here.

    Are you accusing me of being a rapist?
  13. Zugzwang
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    27 Feb '17 00:342 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar to Vivify
    Sexual assault is a legal term.

    Remember, I am a fundamentalist Christian, so my sexual activity is much lower than the average.
    I have never forced myself on my wife. So there goes your theory.

    Do you have first hand knowledge of a person here who is guilty of sexual assault?
    "I am a fundamentalist Christian, so my sexual activity is much lower than the average."
    --Eladar

    Eladar could advise the white American Christian pastor Mike Ulmer to try that line at his rape trial.
    Mike Ulmer could claim that he's been charged with raping or assaulting only two girls so far.
  14. Zugzwang
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    27 Feb '17 00:372 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Yes or no question here.
    Are you accusing me of being a rapist?
    It's obvious that Eladar has the mentality of a rapist (with rape as defined under US laws).
    I have no specific knowledge of Eladar's actions. And I have no reason to accept whatever
    the pathological liar Eladar claims about them.
  15. Account suspended
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    27 Feb '17 00:37
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Women don't like that one.
    depends how good a lover you are.
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