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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    16 Sep '15 07:29
    http://imgur.com/gallery/h82vC
  2. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
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    16 Sep '15 15:24
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    http://imgur.com/gallery/h82vC
    So go work hard and be a better parent and make your kid be the one on the left rather than whining about why the government needs to prevent parents from trying to give their kids advantages.

    The government isn't going to equalize everything for you, Z. Deal with that and do what you need to do to help your family.
  3. Germany
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    16 Sep '15 15:51
    Originally posted by sh76
    So go work hard and be a better parent and make your kid be the one on the left rather than whining about why the government needs to prevent parents from trying to give their kids advantages.

    The government isn't going to equalize everything for you, Z. Deal with that and do what you need to do to help your family.
    Sheesh Ahmed, you're such a whiner. Why don't you learn to deal with civil war rather than complain about it?

    Newsflash: it's actually possible to make sure that every smart kid can go to university regardless of how lucky they are with their parents. Not only is it possible, it is very easy. So why not just do it?
  4. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    16 Sep '15 15:54
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Sheesh Ahmed, you're such a whiner. Why don't you learn to deal with civil war rather than complain about it?

    Newsflash: it's actually possible to make sure that every smart kid can go to university regardless of how lucky they are with their parents. Not only is it possible, it is very easy. So why not just do it?
    You didn't see the cartoon Z posted. Did you?
  5. Germany
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    16 Sep '15 16:03
    Originally posted by sh76
    You didn't see the cartoon Z posted. Did you?
    I did. How hard do you think my parents had to work to get me through university? They didn't - I had to do the work, and that's how it should be because then you get the smartest students instead of smart-ish students with well-off parents.
  6. Joined
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    16 Sep '15 16:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    So go work hard and be a better parent and make your kid be the one on the left rather than whining about why the government needs to prevent parents from trying to give their kids advantages.

    The government isn't going to equalize everything for you, Z. Deal with that and do what you need to do to help your family.
    this comic is not about socialism. we have failed to discuss that subject elsewhere on numerous occasions.

    this is about the myth that everyone can make it in america (or anywhere else for that matter) provided they just work hard enough. people just seem to gloss over minor things like in what family you are born, how much money your family has, who your family knows and ultimately, luck.

    this is about the douchebags who still claim that everyone has the same chances to success.



    in medieval times, the ruling class forbid peasants from rising above their station. they were legally prevented from doing anything else for themselves.
    in modern times we simply ask them to work 10 times, a hundred times harder than everyone else.


    the solution to fix this would be complex. it would require some rich people to surrender a minor percent of their obscene profits. it would require congressmen owned by rich people to pass laws that close tax loopholes. many other measures can be introduced, each requiring the rich to give up a portion of their profits. all of these measures combined wouldn't reduce the obscene rich to paupers but still they are a taboo to even discuss. republicans filibustered the zadroga bill for some stupid tax break law for the super rich.

    which leads us to our main problem. you don't want this to be fixed. because socializm is evil.
  7. Hy-Brasil
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    16 Sep '15 16:20
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    this comic is not about socialism. we have failed to discuss that subject elsewhere on numerous occasions.

    this is about the myth that everyone can make it in america (or anywhere else for that matter) provided they just work hard enough. people just seem to gloss over minor things like in what family you are born, how much money your family has, who you ...[text shortened]...
    which leads us to our main problem. you don't want this to be fixed. because socializm is evil.
    this is about the douchebags who still claim that everyone has the same chances to success. -Zahlanzi


    What is your definition of success ?
  8. Joined
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    16 Sep '15 16:26
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    this is about the douchebags who still claim that everyone has the same chances to success. -Zahlanzi


    What is your definition of success ?
    having the opportunity to live up to one's potential
  9. Hy-Brasil
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    16 Sep '15 16:59
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    having the opportunity to live up to one's potential
    That is a very odd definition of success imo.
    I define it as a person achieving their goals. How can there be success with no goals ?
  10. Joined
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    16 Sep '15 17:19
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    That is a very odd definition of success imo.
    I define it as a person achieving their goals. How can there be success with no goals ?
    it is not a definition. it is one aspect of a complex concept that cannot be defined. you know very well individuals have different ideas of success.
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
    tinyurl.com/y43jqfyd
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    16 Sep '15 17:39
    Originally posted by sh76
    So go work hard and be a better parent and make your kid be the one on the left rather than whining about why the government needs to prevent parents from trying to give their kids advantages.

    The government isn't going to equalize everything for you, Z. Deal with that and do what you need to do to help your family.
    Why would I want my child to be like the jackass on the left?
  12. Hy-Brasil
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    16 Sep '15 18:421 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    it is not a definition. it is one aspect of a complex concept that cannot be defined. you know very well individuals have different ideas of success.
    You just defined success a couple of post back.
    Now you say success is a concept too complex and cannot be defined.
    Youre going around in circles.
  13. Joined
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    16 Sep '15 18:44
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Why would I want my child to be like the jackass on the left?
    The cartoon portrays successful people as obnoxious and having everything handed to them and those who don't achieve as hard working and would otherwise achieve. If you are willing to accept those as the only two paradigms you can advocate anything. The model of families sacrificing to help future generations is something that should be encouraged not mocked.
  14. Zugzwang
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    16 Sep '15 21:26
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra to Sh76
    I did. How hard do you think my parents had to work to get me through university?
    They didn't - I had to do the work, and that's how it should be because then you get
    the smartest students instead of smart-ish students with well-off parents.
    Ron Unz, a conservative white American Jew (who's an alumnus of Harvard), has written
    that Harvard University evidently gives preferential treatment to its Jewish applicants,
    presumably because they are disproportionately wealthy or well-connected.
    (Several decades ago, there was anti-Jewish discrimination at Ivy League universities.)
    While he estimates that about 25% of Harvard's students now are Jewish, he believes
    that if only academic merit were considered for admission, then only about 6% of
    Harvard's students would be Jewish. In contrast, Ron Unz believes that Asian students
    (who tend to be less wealthy or well-connected) are significantly underrepresented at Harvard
    compared to what their numbers would be if only academic merit were considered for admission.
    Many Asian-American educators and students have long complained of secret quotas
    discriminating against them at some elite American universities, where having 'too many'
    students of Asian heritage is regarded as politically unacceptable.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
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    16 Sep '15 21:58
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Ron Unz, a conservative white American Jew (who's an alumnus of Harvard), has written
    that Harvard University evidently gives preferential treatment to its Jewish applicants,
    presumably because they are disproportionately wealthy or well-connected.
    (Several decades ago, there was anti-Jewish discrimination at Ivy League universities.)
    While he estimate ...[text shortened]... es, where having 'too many'
    students of Asian heritage is regarded as politically unacceptable.
    The numbers you cite are even more stark if you compare African-American enrollment with Asian.

    It doesn't follow that the smartest need to attend Universities. Some of the richest men in the world don't have a degree, and many smart people do well with education in the trades, and in technology, without the expense of Harvard.
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