From some hilarious Senate testimony today from General Myers:
The general also fumbled for estimates on the size of the insurgency under questioning first by Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), the committee's ranking minority member. Levin noted that U.S. estimates have proved grossly inaccurate in the past. He cited a statement last week by Gen. George W. Casey Jr., the senior U.S. commander in Iraq, that 15,000 suspected insurgents had been killed or captured in the past year, after U.S. military authorities had said only 6,000 to 9,000 hard-core fighters existed.
Myers declined to provide a new estimate, saying the Pentagon's figures were classified.
I most like the number of Iraqi insurgents being "classified". Obviously the Iraqi insurgents KNOW how many of them there are, so the keeping of such information secret (like the "secret" bombing of Cambodia which was no "secret" to the Cambodians) has no military justification whatsoever. As correctly pointed out in this article, administration officials for many months have stated PUBLICALLY that the number of insurgents was very low ("dead enders"😉 and that they were getting increasingly "desperate" at the US' great "successes" in Iraq. It should be obvious that the American people are receiving false information on the situation in Iraq (or what's called on Main St., Anytown, USA "BS"😉 and that the situation is worse than these clowns expected when they got us in this fiasco.
The only real question is when our leaders are going to admit that the war is lost, leave Iraq to the Iraqi people to decide what kind of country they want and stop the killing by bringing the troops home. The pace of Americans killed has risen 55% over the last 5 months; an average 87 per month have been killed in that period, while about 56 per month were killed in the preceding 18 months. And, of course, many thousands of Iraqis are dying at the same time. For the lies and folly of the Bush administration, perhaps a 100,000 people are already dead in Iraq; when will these fools finally admit their hubris and end this catastrophe?
EDIT: The link is http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6909883/
Originally posted by no1marauderare you suggesting some sort of vote amongst the iraqis to find out how many there are?!
From some hilarious Senate testimony today from General Myers:
The general also fumbled for estimates on the size of the insurgency under questioning first by Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), the committee's ranking minority member. Levin noted that U.S. estimates have proved grossly inaccurate in the past. He cited a statement last week by Gen. G ...[text shortened]... their hubris and end this catastrophe?
EDIT: The link is http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6909883/
Originally posted by no1marauderObviously the Iraqi insurgents KNOW how many of them there are
From some hilarious Senate testimony today from General Myers:
The general also fumbled for estimates on the size of the insurgency under questioning first by Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), the committee's ranking minority member. Levin noted that U.S. estimates have proved grossly inaccurate in the past. He cited a statement last week by Gen. G ...[text shortened]... their hubris and end this catastrophe?
EDIT: The link is http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6909883/
That's not necessarily true. If they are not being carefully coordinated with one another, they might not know. They aren't necessarily a single army.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWe did remove one of Bin Laden's most hated enemies. Some cause that was, wouldn't you say? Btw , so was Milosovich so it hasn't been just Bush doing the heavy lifting ( hopefully not on purpose) for Osama.
[b]Obviously the Iraqi insurgents KNOW how many of them there are
That's not necessarily true. If they are not being carefully coordinated with one another, they might not know. They aren't necessarily a single army.[/b]
Originally posted by flexmoreWhat I'm "suggesting" is that the US military has a pretty good idea that the insurgency is much stronger than they'll admit publicly. What I'm "suggesting" is that the government has persistently lied about the size and strength of the Iraqi resistance. And what I'm "suggesting" is that the war's goal, to install a pro-Western Iraqi government which would agree to the permanent basing of US troops on Iraqi soil is not going to happen and it's time to bring this farce to an end.
are you suggesting some sort of vote amongst the iraqis to find out how many there are?!
And ATY: If you really think that the people in Iraq have less knowledge of the number of insurgents than the US military, you're completely deluded.
There are ppl who resist the US, but what you dont know Is how many of them are glad at the US. I met (here at RHP) a Kid who lives over there, And we talk quite fequently, He tells me how Thankful he is at the US. He even sent me a note on election day over there, telling how wonderful it is. although there is violance over there, there always was, And always will be,
Originally posted by no1marauder
What I'm "suggesting" is that the US military has a pretty good idea that the insurgency is much stronger than they'll admit publicly. What I'm "suggesting" is that the government has persistently lied about the size and strength of the Iraqi resistance. And what I'm "suggesting" is that the war's goal, to install a pro-Western Iraqi government which would agree to the permanent basing of US troops on Iraqi soil is not going to happen and it's time to bring this farce to an end.
I agree with you all the way here.
But not with this:
Originally posted by no1marauder
And ATY: If you really think that the people in Iraq have less knowledge of the number of insurgents than the US military, you're completely deluded.
It is quite likely that most people in Iraq have no idea just how large the number of insurgents is. Obviously, they have some estimate from individual knowledge of the numbers locally (especially in parts of Baghdad and the densely Sunni areas), but I don't see any reason why the average person from those areas should have a better guess at the figure than US military (yes, even in spite of the neocons in the administration having made asses and scapegoats out of the intelligence community, I think they are probably decent enough to make a guess).
Come on no1. Don't wimp out by insulting Thousand. Tell us why you think the people of Iraq have just as much if not more knowledge than the US military.
Originally posted by no1marauderA standard tactic of underground resistance organizations is to keep the common soldiers - or anyone really - from knowing much about the organization, so if they are captured they can't give away vital information. In addition, I bet some of these insurgents are just average folks who manage to get ahold of an AK or a hand grenade and aren't really affiliated with any larger organization.
What I'm "suggesting" is that the US military has a pretty good idea that the insurgency is much stronger than they'll admit publicly. What I'm "suggesting" is that the government has persistently lied about the size and ...[text shortened]... r of insurgents than the US military, you're completely deluded.
Originally posted by telerionWhen has the US military been able to EVER give accurate assessments of the strength of non-traditional opponents? When was the last accurate assessment given by the US military at all? The article itself points out that they have been completely wrong about either: A) The number of insurgents; or B) The number of insurgents killed or captured; or more likely both A and B. We won't even get in to the WMD joke.
Originally posted by no1marauder
[b]What I'm "suggesting" is that the US military has a pretty good idea that the insurgency is much stronger than they'll admit publicly. What I'm "suggesting" is that the government has persistently lied about the size and strength of the Iraqi resistance. And what I'm "suggesting" is that the war's goal, ...[text shortened]... s why you think the people of Iraq have just as much if not more knowledge than the US military.
I stand by my statement. The people in Iraq aren't a bunch of ignorant peasants like the US media would have us believe; they know what's going on in their own country. They even have ways of communicating in different parts of it (imagine that!). The average person in Iraq knows that the resistance to the Americans is widespread and IMO could offer a more reliable assessment than the one supplied by the invariably over optimistic ones routinely doled out by the US military. Routinely until, as in this case, the facts make it impossible to any longer keep handing out such rubbish, then the information becomes "classified".
Originally posted by no1marauderMuch of what western civilization is can be traced to the Sumerian civiliziation that began in Iraq. nearly 6000 years ago.It's fasinating to trace the handing of the western imperial baton from Sargon to Bush via of the spread of the Judeo-Christian religion.
When has the US military been able to EVER give accurate assessments of the strength of non-traditional opponents? When was the last accurate assessment given by the US military at all? The article itself points out that they have been completely wrong about either: A) The number of insurgents; or B) The number of insurgents killed or captured; o ...[text shortened]... ssible to any longer keep handing out such rubbish, then the information becomes "classified".
Not just the west though, the influence is in Islam too, via a related religious route. Along with the religion came the aggresive militarism that is so closely connected to it by the notion of being God's People.
Could the reason that both the US and the Moslem fundamentalists went after Milosovich and Saddam be that these two "monsters" didn't kill for God?
Originally posted by no1marauderyou must consider.... Levin is against the US just as you are.
From some hilarious Senate testimony today from General Myers:
The general also fumbled for estimates on the size of the insurgency under questioning first by Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), the committee's ranking minority member. Levin noted that U.S. estimates have proved grossly inaccurate in the past. He cited a statement last week by Gen. G ...[text shortened]... their hubris and end this catastrophe?
EDIT: The link is http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6909883/
So what do you expect of him? To ask a real question like "Are we happy with the thousand innocent iraqi people killed last year in opposing Wahabiism?"
It will be a long wait. Remember. Levin is the enemy.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI see you include reification in you your propaganda arsenal.
you must consider.... Levin is against the US just as you are.
So what do you expect of him? To ask a real question like "Are we happy with the thousand innocent iraqi people killed last year in opposing Wahabiism?"
It will be a long wait. Remember. Levin is the enemy.
George Bush's war is not America!
Originally posted by StarValleyWyYOU'RE the one against America and everything it used to stand for if you support our kids killing and getting killed in a war who's sole purpose is to install a pro-Western puppet government on an unwilling populace in Iraq so that their are more profits to be made by rich SOBS who already have more then they'll ever need. You might want to check out George Washington's farewell speech where he warned against "excessive entanglements" in foreign nations, but I guess he was "against" America, too.
you must consider.... Levin is against the US just as you are.
So what do you expect of him? To ask a real question like "Are we happy with the thousand innocent iraqi people killed last year in opposing Wahabiism?"
It will be a long wait. Remember. Levin is the enemy.