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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    23 Apr '14 15:37
    In the USA government is reducing to a front for corporate interests. Those on the Left who have not yet abandoned hope in Obama's politics may like to consider his contribution to a typical G8 and corporate American ploy to subvert international aid into a Trojan horse for the benefit of corporate greed. This time it is a project called the New Alliance for Food Security and Nutrition.
    Billed as a means of addressing hunger in developing nations, it is actually a corporate takeover of Africa’s food chain which will leave the continent more hungry and threaten global food security...

    The New Alliance aims to open up the African food market to Western agri-business, and force African farmers to use private GM seeds....

    Countries wishing to benefit from the scheme have to sign up to more than 200 commitments stipulating how ‘friendly’ they must be to foreign business – these include domestic policy matters such as tax, environmental regulations, and labor laws.

    Despite G8 claims that the project is aimed at assisting smallholders in making the most of their farmland, these farmers have been completely excluded from the process. The UN’s own special rapporteur on the right to food, Olivier de Schutter, said governments had been making promises to investors “completely behind the screen”, with “no long-term view about the future of smallholder farmers” and without their participation...

    ...Mozambique, for example, is committed to “systematically ceasing to distribute free and unimproved [non-commercial] seeds to farmers except in emergencies”. The new alliance will lock poor farmers into buying increasingly expensive seeds – including genetically modified seeds – allow corporate monopolies in seed selling, and escalate the loss of precious genetic diversity in seeds – absolutely key in the fight against hunger. It will also open the door to genetically modified (GM) crops in Africa by stopping farmers’ access to traditional local varieties and forcing them to buy private seeds.

    Zitto Kabwe, the chairman of the Tanzanian parliament’s public accounts committee, said he was “completely against” the commitments his government has made to increase private investment in seeds.

    “By introducing this market, farmers will have to depend on imported seeds. This will definitely affect small farmers. It will also kill innovation at the local level. We have seen this with manufacturing,” he said.

    “It will be like colonialism. Farmers will not be able to farm until they import, linking farmers to [the] vulnerability of international prices. Big companies will benefit. We should not allow that....


    http://iacknowledge.net/colonialism-is-back-g8-has-launched-corporate-takeover-of-africas-food/

    This material from a campaigning site is perfectly consistent with the account given on the official US government site:
    The New Alliance includes specific commitments from:

    African leaders to refine policies in order to improve investment opportunities and drive their country-led plans on food security
    Private sector companies, who have collectively committed more than $3 billion to increase investments
    Donor partners, who will support Africa’s potential for rapid and sustained agricultural growth, and ensure accountability for the New Alliance
    Feed the Future serves as the principal vehicle through which the United States contributes to the New Alliance.
    http://feedthefuture.gov/article/new-alliance-food-security-and-nutrition-0
  2. 23 Apr '14 15:45
    Obama is an empty suit? Say it isn't so.
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    23 Apr '14 15:55
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Obama is an empty suit? Say it isn't so.
    I am not a fan of Obama's politics. More to the point on this occasion is that I am alarmed to find just how deeply corporate interests have taken control over your government machine and you, the American electorate, seem deliriously happy to allow that to persist.
  4. 23 Apr '14 15:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    I am not a fan of Obama's politics. More to the point on this occasion is that I am alarmed to find just how deeply corporate interests have taken control over your government machine and you, the American electorate, seem deliriously happy to allow that to persist.
    That's the problem with democracies, half the people voting have an IQ below 100 and are easily duped by propaganda. Of course there is the opposite end of the spectrum where you have people who are so smart that they have no common sense and have no clue how the world operates. Both ends of the spectrum are easily deceived. I'm glad to see that you are able to see past this deception.

    Why do you think Obama won the Nobel Prize? Propaganda! It should be a huge red flag about how the Nobel Prize is being used.
  5. 23 Apr '14 16:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    In the USA government is reducing to a front for corporate interests. Those on the Left who have not yet abandoned hope in Obama's politics may like to consider his contribution to a typical G8 and corporate American ploy to subvert international aid into a Trojan horse for the benefit of corporate greed. This time it is a project called the New Alliance f ...[text shortened]... ew Alliance. [/quote]http://feedthefuture.gov/article/new-alliance-food-security-and-nutrition-0
    Neocolonialism.

    The chief perversion of otherwise ethically neutral corporatism is the conviction that it is ethically obligatory and a fiduciary duty of the board and management to maximize shareholder return using all and any means whose cost (including fines, court awards, etc.) provides a favorable financial net gain. This extends to investing in electoral campaigns and influencing the passage of laws that are favorable to corporate interests, making otherwise illegal actions such as bribes into legal campaign contributions. It includes treating such things as fines for pollution as budgeted expenses that are more cost effective than remediation. It is a perversion of the Invisible Hand that unskeptical boosters of capitalism simply don't see.
  6. 23 Apr '14 16:51
    Originally posted by JS357
    The chief perversion of otherwise ethically neutral corporatism is the conviction that it is ethically obligatory and a fiduciary duty of the board and management to maximize shareholder return using all and any means whose cost (including fines, court awards, etc.) provides a favorable financial net gain. This extends to investing in electoral campaigns and i ...[text shortened]... is a perversion of the Invisible Hand that unskeptical boosters of capitalism simply don't see.
    Oh wow, you think corruption is limited to capitalism?

    You are woefully ignorant of the human condition.
  7. 23 Apr '14 17:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Oh wow, you think corruption is limited to capitalism?

    You are woefully ignorant of the human condition.
    I agree with you on that. Edit: It's not limited to capitalism. It's not even limited to humans.

    But I know you leap to unwarranted conclusions that usually cast aspersions on people.
  8. 23 Apr '14 17:31
    It is a perversion of the Invisible Hand that unskeptical boosters of capitalism simply don't see.

    Yawn.
  9. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    23 Apr '14 18:48
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Oh wow, you think corruption is limited to capitalism?

    You are woefully ignorant of the human condition.
    Obviously this is a deliberate misreading since there is no ground otherwise for the suggestion that anyone thinks corruption is limited to capitalism.

    However, there may also be an implication that, because the human condition is such as to make corruption prevalent, then that makes corruption okay. This I do not accept. However, I think that many American voters appear to accept such reasoning and that is a serious problem to my mind. If you Americans are no longer even calling your elected representatives to account on these ethical matters then you have allowed your government to run amok.

    What has been established is that Obama is no exception to the rule. He is a mainstream US politician serving the selfish interests of American corporations and as such should not enjoy a privileged status among observers on the Left. That honeymoon ended a long time ago.
  10. 23 Apr '14 19:32
    Originally posted by finnegan
    In the USA government is reducing to a front for corporate interests. Those on the Left who have not yet abandoned hope in Obama's politics may like to consider his contribution to a typical G8 and corporate American ploy to subvert international aid into a Trojan horse for the benefit of corporate greed. This time it is a project called the New Alliance f ...[text shortened]... ew Alliance. [/quote]http://feedthefuture.gov/article/new-alliance-food-security-and-nutrition-0
    its nothing short of criminal
  11. 23 Apr '14 20:06
    Originally posted by finnegan
    I am not a fan of Obama's politics. More to the point on this occasion is that I am alarmed to find just how deeply corporate interests have taken control over your government machine and you, the American electorate, seem deliriously happy to allow that to persist.
    We just got done opposing Obamacare which forces all Americans to buy corporate health care, basically allowing them to set our tax rates.

    It's nothing but corporate socialism and all the lefties seem to champion it.
  12. 23 Apr '14 20:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    its nothing short of criminal
    I just love it. At the end of two terms, both Republicans or Democrats feel like a used rubber after someone from their party has occupied the Oval Office for two terms.

    It's time to end their centralized power. Vote for states to amend the Constitution and withdraw much of their centralized power. Start with term limits for Congress and then a balanced budget to disallow them throwing money at everyone on planet earth to do their corporate biddings, including bailing out corporate America.
  13. 23 Apr '14 21:08
    Originally posted by whodey
    I just love it. At the end of two terms, both Republicans or Democrats feel like a used rubber after someone from their party has occupied the Oval Office for two terms.

    It's time to end their centralized power. Vote for states to amend the Constitution and withdraw much of their centralized power. Start with term limits for Congress and then a balanced ...[text shortened]... veryone on planet earth to do their corporate biddings, including bailing out corporate America.
    More effective would be an amendment to ban deductions on income tax. If you make x you pay x no exceptions. If you invest money, then your returns above your original investment are taxed as income. Inheritance is income and taxed as such.

    Next, an amendment to recognize lawyers as witches and have them rounded up. Whether we burn them at the stake is something we could debate.
  14. 23 Apr '14 21:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Obviously this is a deliberate misreading since there is no ground otherwise for the suggestion that anyone thinks corruption is limited to capitalism.

    However, there may also be an implication that, because the human condition is such as to make corruption prevalent, then that makes corruption okay. This I do not accept. However, I think that many Ame ...[text shortened]... not enjoy a privileged status among observers on the Left. That honeymoon ended a long time ago.
    Observers and commentators on the left make their living selling their ideas to media outlets that cater to the left. The same is true on the right. None of them can afford to deviate very far from their audience's preferences.

    What you are saying is so generally applicable to both parties that I doubt that many commentators are going to move to it from their meal ticket positions. All I can sense about the commentators on the left is a general feeling of disappointment in Obama and in the entire political establishment's apparent gridlock.

    The commentators on the right and left do not see that political gridlock is not a sign of dysfunction in its perpetrators if the gridlock is intentional and has its intended effects. The perps are quite functional in the achievement of that end.
  15. 23 Apr '14 21:47
    Originally posted by JS357
    Observers and commentators on the left make their living selling their ideas to media outlets that cater to the left. The same is true on the right. None of them can afford to deviate very far from their audience's preferences.

    What you are saying is so generally applicable to both parties that I doubt that many commentators are going to move to it from the ...[text shortened]... nal and has its intended effects. The perps are quite functional in the achievement of that end.
    The disappointment is kind of normal in years leading up to midterms, especially with a lame duck President.

    Any initiative of Obama is going to be similar to the Bush initiative for personal SS accounts. DOA. Generally Presidents get their accomplishments in the first two years, and struggle with opposition accusations the rest of the way.