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Debates Forum

  1. 25 Nov '11 04:55
    From…, oh, some progressive email list somebody put me on.

    Eric,

    Tomorrow starts the traditional holiday season, when Americans will spend billions of dollars.

    Several Occupy groups and our friend Ed Schultz are urging Americans to use our shopping dollars strategically, to help repair our economy. They’re asking Americans to support local businesses, not big chains selling foreign products.

    Can you share your thoughts on how consumers can use our dollars to impact change this holiday season? Click here.

    We’ll share the best ideas with fellow PCCC members (800,000 now!) in the near future — and we’ll share them with Ed Schultz, in case he wants to feature them on TV. Click here to share your ideas.

    Huffington Post reports:

    One group, known as Occupy Black Friday, is urging shoppers to bypass chain stores in favor of small and local businesses, while another group, named Don’t Occupy Walmart, is organizing a boycott of Walmart stores in protest of what it calls unjust and anti-union practices on the part of the retail giant.

    On MSNBC, Ed Schultz said:

    What can we do as Americans this holiday season to make things a little bit better in a tough economy?

    I think as a country we should all focus on buying American. Instead of buying some cheap product from China that’s sitting on somebody’s big department story shelf — that will help build their empire — save a small business in our country this year and buy American this holiday season. May I ask you to do that?

    Americans, we will spend $10 billion this holiday season. If we just make the effort, we can save a job. We can help a company stay in business and do something for our neighbor.

    Click here to share your thoughts on what we can do as consumers to impact change this holiday season.

    Happy holiday season — and thanks for being a bold progressive.

    – Michael Snook, Stephanie Taylor, Adam Green, Forrest Brown, and the PCCC team
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    25 Nov '11 13:03
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    From…, oh, some progressive email list somebody put me on.

    Eric,

    Tomorrow starts the traditional holiday season, when Americans will spend billions of dollars.

    Several Occupy groups and our friend Ed Schultz are urging Americans to use our shopping dollars strategically, to help repair our economy. They’re asking Americans to support local businesses ...[text shortened]... progressive.

    – Michael Snook, Stephanie Taylor, Adam Green, Forrest Brown, and the PCCC team
    That's what I've been saying for a long time. Buy local, buy small. Be a socially responsible shopper instead of just a passive consumer.

    http://www.greenamerica.org/programs/responsibleshopper/learn_hub.cfm

    http://www.betterworldshopper.org/rankings.html

    http://www.goodguide.com/
  3. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    25 Nov '11 16:31
    Originally posted by rwingett
    That's what I've been saying for a long time. Buy local, buy small. Be a socially responsible shopper instead of just a passive consumer.

    http://www.greenamerica.org/programs/responsibleshopper/learn_hub.cfm

    http://www.betterworldshopper.org/rankings.html

    http://www.goodguide.com/
    People really dont' care. Just give it up. You say to someone you can buy this table for 50 bux or that exact table for 200 bux and people will pick the cheaper one every time. They don't care the cheaper one is from china. They just assume the american made one is more expensive because "probably some union forces the company to pay them more money than the workers are worth and that's why it's more expensive".

    People only look out for themselves. They don't really care about anyone else when it comes down to it.
  4. 25 Nov '11 16:58
    Originally posted by uzless
    People really dont' care. Just give it up. You say to someone you can buy this table for 50 bux or that exact table for 200 bux and people will pick the cheaper one every time. They don't care the cheaper one is from china. They just assume the american made one is more expensive because "probably some union forces the company to pay them more money than ...[text shortened]... k out for themselves. They don't really care about anyone else when it comes down to it.
    That actually makes sense ! One thumbs up from your nemesis.
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    25 Nov '11 17:19
    Originally posted by uzless
    People really dont' care. Just give it up. You say to someone you can buy this table for 50 bux or that exact table for 200 bux and people will pick the cheaper one every time. They don't care the cheaper one is from china. They just assume the american made one is more expensive because "probably some union forces the company to pay them more money than ...[text shortened]... k out for themselves. They don't really care about anyone else when it comes down to it.
    People are starting to care. Socially responsible consumerism is still a new concept. I don't expect people to embrace it overnight. But people are starting to wake up to the fact that their purchasing habits have ramifications, that they essentially get the world they pay for. As information becomes more widely available, people will begin to see the effects their choices have. I do not buy into your crippling brand of cynicism.

    You can take the 'Move Your Money' movement as an example. Thousands of people have moved their money out of the big banks and put them into local credit unions recently. Do you really think something like that is going to have no effect? I notice that Bank of America is running a new ad campaign on TV to try to stop the bleeding.
  6. 25 Nov '11 17:21
    Originally posted by uzless
    People really dont' care. Just give it up. You say to someone you can buy this table for 50 bux or that exact table for 200 bux and people will pick the cheaper one every time. They don't care the cheaper one is from china. They just assume the american made one is more expensive because "probably some union forces the company to pay them more money than ...[text shortened]... k out for themselves. They don't really care about anyone else when it comes down to it.
    There is no reason to pay $200 for a $50 table. Be smart when you shop and make sure you get the best deal for yourself. You might think you are doing a going deed by letting a local person charge you more, but honestly you are just a fool.
  7. 25 Nov '11 17:24
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Several Occupy groups and our friend Ed Schultz are urging Americans to use our shopping dollars strategically, to help repair our economy. They’re asking Americans to support local businesses, not big chains selling foreign products.
    But that is not the best thing for the economy. Making your economy less efficient and supported on artificial mechanisms, is not the best way to solve your problems.
    Its also not fair to the rest of the world. Yes I know rwingett wants to keep the rich rich, but pretends he doesn't, but that is essentially what buy local is all about. Its about trying to hang on to your wealth. It isn't going to work.

    If you can't compete with China in the low skills job market, then either get more skills, or try to help China get to your level, then their salaries will go up too.

    Simultaneously trying to hold 'occupy' protests against the super rich, whilst trying to keep those poorer than you poor, is just hypocritical.
  8. 25 Nov '11 17:28
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Socially responsible consumerism is still a new concept.
    What nonsense. Its been around as long as I can remember and probably existed before I was born.

    As information becomes more widely available, people will begin to see the effects their choices have.
    Which presumably why you are desperately trying to spread misinformation so that they don't make the right choices.

    I do not buy into your crippling brand of cynicism.
    And I don't by your 'buy local helps everybody'.

    You can take the 'Move Your Money' movement as an example. Thousands of people have moved their money out of the big banks and put them into local credit unions recently. Do you really think something like that is going to have no effect? I notice that Bank of America is running a new ad campaign on TV to try to stop the bleeding.
    And who is it helping?
  9. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    25 Nov '11 17:47
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What nonsense. Its been around as long as I can remember and probably existed before I was born.

    [b]As information becomes more widely available, people will begin to see the effects their choices have.

    Which presumably why you are desperately trying to spread misinformation so that they don't make the right choices.

    I do not buy into your c ...[text shortened]... s running a new ad campaign on TV to try to stop the bleeding.
    And who is it helping?[/b]
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    25 Nov '11 18:10
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    But that is not the best thing for the economy. Making your economy less efficient and supported on artificial mechanisms, is not the best way to solve your problems.
    Its also not fair to the rest of the world. Yes I know rwingett wants to keep the rich rich, but pretends he doesn't, but that is essentially what buy local is all about. Its about trying t ...[text shortened]... nst the super rich, whilst trying to keep those poorer than you poor, is just hypocritical.
    Repressive regimes which block worker organization by laws and force are "less efficient and supported on artificial mechanisms" not those that reflect the realistic bargaining power of the worker without such government employed tactics to support "capitalists" (which usually in China is the State itself).
  11. 25 Nov '11 18:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by uzless
    People really dont' care. Just give it up. You say to someone you can buy this table for 50 bux or that exact table for 200 bux and people will pick the cheaper one every time. They don't care the cheaper one is from china. They just assume the american made one is more expensive because "probably some union forces the company to pay them more money than k out for themselves. They don't really care about anyone else when it comes down to it.
    this is not true, people will pay for quality every time, its a false economy to pay for
    cheap stuff when you can get a quality product that will last a lifetime rather than a
    cheapo that will last a few years. Indeed, there is a rather famous case of a certain
    lawnmower manufacture who refused to import his lawnmowers from the east, put his
    name on it and sell them in waltmart, why? because it would simply diminish the
    quality and reputation of his product. Did his product suffer, no way, people knew that
    his product was superior despite the increased cost and were prepared to pay for it.
    People will and should pay for quality every time.
  12. 25 Nov '11 18:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    this is not true, people will pay for quality every time, its a false economy to pay for
    cheap stuff when you can get a quality product that will last a lifetime rather than a
    cheapo that will last a few years. Indeed, there is a rather famous case of a certain
    lawnmower manufacture who refused to import his lawnmowers from the east, put his ...[text shortened]... ased cost and were prepared to pay for it.
    People will and should pay for quality every time.
    He did say,
    You say to someone you can buy this table for 50 bux or that exact table for 200 bux and people will pick the cheaper one every time.
    and thats where I have to agree. Quality is not the issue here. Its some sort of loyalty.
  13. 25 Nov '11 23:05
    Yawn. Yeah, nationalism and protectionism are going to save us all.
  14. 26 Nov '11 20:06
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    He did say,
    You say to someone you can buy this table for 50 bux or that [b]exact table for 200 bux and people will pick the cheaper one every time.
    and thats where I have to agree. Quality is not the issue here. Its some sort of loyalty.[/b]
    A table produced in the United States cannot be the exact same as a table
    produced elsewhere, can it. The opponents point was that all people are concerned
    with is the bottom line, clearly that's not the case, people are interested in quality and
    people are interested in the ethics of economics.
  15. 26 Nov '11 20:09
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Yawn. Yeah, nationalism and protectionism are going to save us all.
    its this type of indifference that is the killer, people are looking for solutions, what they
    can do within the sphere of their influence and as the Scots saying goes ' mony a
    mickle macks a muckle'!