Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Behind the scenes
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    27 Dec '18 03:562 edits
    Trump's lies about open borders become his followers reality

    Donald Trump and his followers love to lie about America's "open border" with Mexico. To listen to these people, America has no border security at all, and hoards of hostile foreigners are swarming across the border right now, spreading crime, disease, and terror to every city and town in America. They also love to lie about those "Godless Liberals" who support open borders, and hate America.


    The facts about America's borders are very different:

    Lie # 1. America does NOT have open borders. America has nearly 20,000 border patrol personnel, many on our southern border, not including high tech surveillance, motion sensors, air surveillance, and support from the national guard. I know the Trump supporters here won't actually read through the links below, but in case they even skim through them, it will be abundantly clear Trump and his followers are lying.

    Lie # 2. Hoards of hostile foreigners are NOT swarming across the border. Illegal immigration across the Mexican border is at a 20 year low. Donald Trump has lied about this for a long time, and his followers have dutifully repeated this lie, until it's become their reality.

    Lie #3. Democrats do not support open borders. When Democrats wanted Donald Trump to uphold his campaign promise to make Mexico pay for his wall, Trump started lying that Democrats are all weak on border security, and all support open borders. True to form, Trump's little minions started repeating this lie, and it's now become their reality.

    If Donald Trump told his followers the sky is green and the grass is pink, they'd be here lying about that too.
    🙄



    https://www.dhs.gov/publication/border-surveillance-systems-bss

    https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/622246815/unauthorized-immigration-in-three-graphs

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2018/10/08/trump-lies-about-feinstein-and-open-borders/

    YouTube
  2. Joined
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    27 Dec '18 04:05
    @mchill - If what you say is true, than why is the illegal immigrant population as high as it is? If people were entering the country by the current legal process - prescribed Ports of Entry - this conversation would be mute.
  3. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    27 Dec '18 04:25
    @mchill said
    Trump's lies about open borders become his followers reality

    Donald Trump and his followers love to lie about America's "open border" with Mexico. To listen to these people, America has no border security at all, and hoards of hostile foreigners are swarming across the border right now, spreading crime, disease, and terror to every city and town in America. They also love t ...[text shortened]... 18/10/08/trump-lies-about-feinstein-and-open-borders/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCtwJveSOVg
    There are literally tens of millions of illegals and even though they're illegal they have kids with birth right citizenship.

    The demographics of the country are literally shifting from this.

    Your misinformation campaign is pathetic. Argue something else.
  4. Joined
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    27 Dec '18 04:40
    Ya! Kick rocks. This is Trump territory! 😡
  5. Standard memberHandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    At the edge
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    27 Dec '18 05:20
    @goodknightnobody said
    @mchill - If what you say is true, than why is the illegal immigrant population as high as it is? If people were entering the country by the current legal process - prescribed Ports of Entry - this conversation would be mute.
    I agree. It should be mute.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
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    27 Dec '18 05:32
    @philokalia said
    There are literally tens of millions of illegals and even though they're illegal they have kids with birth right citizenship.

    The demographics of the country are literally shifting from this.

    Your misinformation campaign is pathetic. Argue something else.
    Believe it or not, and you won't, because Trump and Fox News hold all the 'truth', but the people causing your precious white brothers to lose their majority are CITIZENS. Undocumented immigrants don't get counted in any censes.

    And the only "misinformation', again, is that continually presented as 'truth' by Trump, Fox News, and your nationalist brotherhood. Most Americans are starting to see your Fear Agenda for what it is.
  7. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    27 Dec '18 07:23
    @suzianne said
    Believe it or not, and you won't, because Trump and Fox News hold all the 'truth', but the people causing your precious white brothers to lose their majority are CITIZENS. Undocumented immigrants don't get counted in any censes.

    And the only "misinformation', again, is that continually presented as 'truth' by Trump, Fox News, and your nationalist brotherhood. Most Americans are starting to see your Fear Agenda for what it is.
    Actually, they do get counted.

    "The Census Bureau counts all people, both citizens and noncitizens, with a usual residence in the 50 states in the census and in apportionment counts, the AP reported.

    In March, the Trump administration announced that the 2020 census would include a question on citizenship, a question that has not appeared on the census since 1950, according to The Hill."

    https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-politician-slams-census-counting-undocumented-immigrants-america-not-939609
  8. Germany
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    27 Dec '18 10:02
    @philokalia said
    There are literally tens of millions of illegals and even though they're illegal they have kids with birth right citizenship.

    The demographics of the country are literally shifting from this.

    Your misinformation campaign is pathetic. Argue something else.
    Why does it frighten you that "the demographics of the country are literally shifting"?
  9. Subscribermoonbus
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    27 Dec '18 11:17
    @kazetnagorra said
    Why does it frighten you that "the demographics of the country are literally shifting"?
    Bingo.

    Apart from full-blooded Inuits, Aleuts, Eskimos, Apaches, Sioux, etc., everyone in America today is either an immigrant or descended from immigrants. The demographics of America have been shifting ever since 1492.
  10. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    27 Dec '18 11:28
    @moonbus said
    Bingo.

    Apart from full-blooded Inuits, Aleuts, Eskimos, Apaches, Sioux, etc., everyone in America today is either an immigrant or descended from immigrants. The demographics of America have been shifting ever since 1492.
    How could native Americans have been Americans before America existed?

    Be honest: what is America?

    Was America defined by the traditions of the Algonquin, Sioux, and Cherokee, or was it founded and molded by the English, the Dutch, and other European settlers..?
  11. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    27 Dec '18 11:39
    @kazetnagorra said
    Why does it frighten you that "the demographics of the country are literally shifting"?
    This is something that would obviously be very challenging to a German who undergoes probably even more intense multikulti indoctrination than maybe anyone else -- but who knows, the Swedes are always surprising.

    But, in short, it all comes down to recognizing what your legacy is, and desiring to see it go forward, and understanding that your legacy is meaningful and has a depth that goes beyond some naked bunkum about civil liberties & rights. Indeed, these liberties and rights continue to be eroded and become even more hollow & meaningless the more that multikulti advances, and the society becomes further divided.

    It's all quite simple: Hispanics do not assimilate into white American culture, thus they are not Americans, and their future is not reflective of my interests at all. In fact, explicitly Hispanic organizations tend to be overtly hostile to the historic white institutions & white majority.

    While it is certainly true that a significant amount of Hispanics come in good faith & seek to assimilate into the American norms, this number does not appear to be the majority, and this number is probably far more reflective of legal immigrants than those who come illegally.

    Why would I want to have my homeland permanently shifted into something that is not reflective of my values and my culture, and into one that is hostile towards my values..?

    It is a stupid question -- of course, I am sure you anticipated my answer and the question is rhetorical, but I gave it an answer nonetheless.
  12. Germany
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    27 Dec '18 11:53
    @philokalia said
    This is something that would obviously be very challenging to a German who undergoes probably even more intense multikulti indoctrination than maybe anyone else -- but who knows, the Swedes are always surprising.

    But, in short, it all comes down to recognizing what your legacy is, and desiring to see it go forward, and understanding that your legacy is meaningful and h ...[text shortened]... sure you anticipated my answer and the question is rhetorical, but I gave it an answer nonetheless.
    I'm not German and I haven't undergone any "multikulti indoctrination." Moving on... I would recommend that you open a history book and find out what people such as yourself used to say about Irish, German, Chinese etc. immigrants to the U.S. and about how they "did not assimilate" and so on and so forth. And yet here you are defending the descendants of (some of) those very people your like-minded predecessors denounced as un-American!
  13. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    27 Dec '18 12:12
    @kazetnagorra said
    I'm not German and I haven't undergone any "multikulti indoctrination." Moving on... I would recommend that you open a history book and find out what people such as yourself used to say about Irish, German, Chinese etc. immigrants to the U.S. and about how they "did not assimilate" and so on and so forth. And yet here you are defending the descendants of (some of) those very people your like-minded predecessors denounced as un-American!
    ... But the Irish, Germans, Italians, etc., did assimilate, and it was easy as they are from the same pool of culture and religion as us.

    No one wants their country to become more like Mexico -- and Mexicans do not want their country to become more like Honduras.

    YouTube

    Not to mention, the economic circumstances which epreviously existed and made this sort of immigration desirable 100 years ago no longer exist.
  14. Germany
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    27 Dec '18 12:36
    @philokalia said
    ... But the Irish, Germans, Italians, etc., did assimilate, and it was easy as they are from the same pool of culture and religion as us.

    No one wants their country to become more like Mexico -- and Mexicans do not want their country to become more like Honduras.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdg9ArK91M

    Not to mention, the economic circumstances which epreviously existed and made this sort of immigration desirable 100 years ago no longer exist.
    ... But the Irish, Germans, Italians, etc., did assimilate, and it was easy as they are from the same pool of culture and religion as us.

    Your predecessors vehemently disagreed. Even during the JFK era, discrimination against Catholics was an issue during the election. Here's what JFK said in a speech in 1960:
    Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end — where all men and all churches are treated as equal — where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice — where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind — and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.


    Sadly, JFK's ideal of brotherhood is under threat from people who are addicted to hate and live on a diet of racist propaganda, such as yourself. Why don't you just try to get along with others? Have you considered the possibility that the problem isn't brown people, or Muslims, or leftist multikulti, but you?

    I can't imagine what "economic circumstances" you might be talking about. The typical migrant to the U.S. in the 19th Century was illiterate, unskilled and uneducated, and a much higher proportion of them were criminals than migrants today. The United States are extremely sparsely populated and can easily house a billion people... which it will likely never even reach even with completely open borders.
  15. Standard membershavixmir
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    27 Dec '18 12:43
    @philokalia said
    ... But the Irish, Germans, Italians, etc., did assimilate, and it was easy as they are from the same pool of culture and religion as us.

    No one wants their country to become more like Mexico -- and Mexicans do not want their country to become more like Honduras.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdg9ArK91M

    Not to mention, the economic circumstances which epreviously existed and made this sort of immigration desirable 100 years ago no longer exist.
    Have you ever driven North (I think it’s North; strip via the old strip to the desert) out of Las Vegas?

    Hundreds and hundreds of cripples living in cardboard boxes and blankets. It’s like something out of a post-apocalyptic movie.

    Nobody in their right minds wants any of their citizens living like that.
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