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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    27 Oct '17 05:58
    Has Trump at last suggested something worthwhile?
    Incredulous as it may seem .....
  2. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    27 Oct '17 07:32
    Nope. Drugs are good.

    There's no way I could listen to people without being doped up on everything I can lay my grubby little paws on.
  3. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    27 Oct '17 11:16 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Has Trump at last suggested something worthwhile?
    Incredulous as it may seem .....
    I don't know. For 50 years I've seen this stupid war on drugs play out in politics, as the right wing's "get tough on the druggies" message appealed to their simple minded supporters, now that massive amounts of American druggies are getting hooked on drugs from Merck, Pfizer, and other multi billion dollar pharmaceutical Co's we now must declare a crisis, and begin "treatment" for the druggies. If you're a drug dealer, all you need is a business license and smart lawyers and our beloved right wing lawmakers start singing a very different tune about the chemicals you sell to others
  4. 27 Oct '17 11:36
    Originally posted by @mchill
    I don't know. For 50 years I've seen this stupid war on drugs play out in politics, as the right wing's "get tough on the druggies" message appealed to their simple minded supporters, now that massive amounts of American druggies are getting hooked on drugs from Merck, Pfizer, and other multi billion dollar pharmaceutical Co's we now must declare a crisis, ...[text shortened]... ht wing lawmakers start singing a very different tune about the chemicals you sell to others
    So what is your solution?

    Or are you happy with the way things are?
  5. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    27 Oct '17 11:54
    Originally posted by @whodey
    So what is your solution?

    Or are you happy with the way things are?
    My "solution" is we should have begun treatment 50 years ago like the rest of the civilized world instead of listening to the right wing idiots declaring we need to toss everyone in the slammer.
  6. 27 Oct '17 13:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    My "solution" is we should have begun treatment 50 years ago like the rest of the civilized world instead of listening to the right wing idiots declaring we need to toss everyone in the slammer.
    When people mention the war on drugs and how it has failed, I just chuckle. There is no war on drugs and never has been.

    I also agree that the revolving door prison system is a joke and does no good.

    We have been shown how to engage in a successful war on drugs via Singapore.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/singapore-policy-drugs-bay

    They have one of the lowest drug rates in the world, although they tend to be a bit brutal in the treatment of dealers. They usually are just shot on the spot, and those using get two chances to kick the habit before being jailed.

    Shrug, it works. Every year the drug rates get cut by about 2/3 and still dropping.

    I would embrace a capital punishment approach to drug sellers, especially those drugs that are known to kill people in large numbers, granted, I would at least like them to go to trial unlike what they do in Singapore.

    The problem is, the US has no resolve to win this war. Most just want to legalize drugs instead of holding accountable the dealers and victims for their poor choices.
  7. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    27 Oct '17 13:51
    Originally posted by @whodey
    When people mention the war on drugs and how it has failed, I just chuckle. There is no war on drugs and never has been.

    I also agree that the revolving door prison system is a joke and does no good.

    We have been shown how to engage in a successful war on drugs via Singapore.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/singapore-policy-dr ...[text shortened]... to legalize drugs instead of holding accountable the dealers and victims for their poor choices.
    Just to clarify:

    1. You would embrace capital punishment for drug sellers?
    2. You want 'victims' held accountable for their poor choices?
    3. You don't care much for the 'reasons' people use or sell drugs?
    4. You don't think tackling these 'reasons' is the way forward?
  8. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    27 Oct '17 15:31
    Originally posted by @whodey
    So what is your solution?

    Or are you happy with the way things are?
    The solution is to shut down the script mills giving out oxy like candy and a fake pharmacy next door just happy to make a bunch of money on the lives of the victims. Sounds a lot like the tobacco conspiracy they tried to pull, remember those dudes saying tobacco is not addictive, is safe and so forth? Sound familiar?
  9. 27 Oct '17 15:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Just to clarify:

    1. You would embrace capital punishment for drug sellers?
    2. You want 'victims' held accountable for their poor choices?
    3. You don't care much for the 'reasons' people use or sell drugs?
    4. You don't think tackling these 'reasons' is the way forward?
    No, I said certain types of drugs should incur the death penalty, such as heroin or any other drug that has a high kill rate amongst the population.

    Of course, many in society don't even agree with killing murderers, so I can't see this happening in the US.

    As for users, there needs to be some accountability don't you think?

    I never said I was against tackling the reasons.

    In war, you use overwhelming force to gain a victory. It takes all you have, something a nation that is divided is devoid of.
  10. 27 Oct '17 15:48
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    The solution is to shut down the script mills giving out oxy like candy and a fake pharmacy next door just happy to make a bunch of money on the lives of the victims. Sounds a lot like the tobacco conspiracy they tried to pull, remember those dudes saying tobacco is not addictive, is safe and so forth? Sound familiar?
    There is no doubt that prescription medications plays a big role in all this.

    I'm torn on the issue. I've seen people who were taking narcotics who, in my opinion, did not need them for medical reasons, and I've seen people suffer because clinicians were being micromanaged and discouraged from prescribing narcotics. Either patient could easily turn to drugs such as heroin.
  11. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    27 Oct '17 16:05
    Originally posted by @whodey
    There is no doubt that prescription medications plays a big role in all this.

    I'm torn on the issue. I've seen people who were taking narcotics who, in my opinion, did not need them for medical reasons, and I've seen people suffer because clinicians were being micromanaged and discouraged from prescribing narcotics. Either patient could easily turn to drugs such as heroin.
    " Either patient could easily turn to drugs such as heroin."

    Or indeed to selling it to fund their habit. (For which you would advocate capital punishment).
  12. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    27 Oct '17 16:34
    Originally posted by @whodey
    There is no doubt that prescription medications plays a big role in all this.

    I'm torn on the issue. I've seen people who were taking narcotics who, in my opinion, did not need them for medical reasons, and I've seen people suffer because clinicians were being micromanaged and discouraged from prescribing narcotics. Either patient could easily turn to drugs such as heroin.
    My wife has been in hospital and ER several times and they basically refused to deal with her pain, giving her doses we knew in advance would do no good but the doctors ALWAYS know best, eh.
  13. 27 Oct '17 17:18
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    " Either patient could easily turn to drugs such as heroin."

    Or indeed to selling it to fund their habit. (For which you would advocate capital punishment).
    Actually, heroin is dirt cheap, so no.
  14. 27 Oct '17 17:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    My wife has been in hospital and ER several times and they basically refused to deal with her pain, giving her doses we knew in advance would do no good but the doctors ALWAYS know best, eh.
    Did she ask you for heroin?

    See what I mean? Don't you think they should have treated it better?
  15. 27 Oct '17 21:12
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Has Trump at last suggested something worthwhile?
    Incredulous as it may seem .....
    Do you believe in magic?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/27/health-experts-trump-opioid-emergency-magical-thinking-analysis

    "Health experts say Trump's opioid response relies on magical thinking."