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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 27 Aug '11 17:52 / 2 edits
    Ricky Perry, a top Republican candidate who has generated excitement with the Republican base and is characterized by many of that base as a good Christian man, met with leading Christian conservatives yesterday at the home of one of his long time religious-right supporters in a small town outside of San Antonio.

    Perry is seen by some as the Teastablishment candidate, a candidate acceptable to both the Tea Party and the Republican establishment. But one wonders if he will be viewed as too much of a religious fundamentalist and thus scare independents and swing voters. From the Houston Chronicle:

    FREDERICKSBURG — Texas Gov. Rick Perry met with leaders of the Christian conservative movement at the home of a longtime political supporter whose business dealings with Perry have drawn previous scrutiny. San Antonio physician, businessman and conservative activist Jim Leininger hosted a meeting for the GOP presidential candidate at his Fredericksburg-area ranch on Friday.

    Perry spokesman Mark Miner says it was not a fundraiser but a chance for Perry to meet leading Christian conservatives. Reporters were not allowed on the ranch to cover the event.

    Leininger was one of Perry's earliest supporters, helping his 1990 campaign purchase a share in an airplane, then buying it back at a higher price. Perry also profited from some well-timed stock purchases in Leininger-founded Kinetic Concepts. A Texas congressman requested a Securities and Exchange Commission investigation into the 1996 transaction that turned up no evidence of insider trading or other wrongdoing. Leininger is best known for bankrolling efforts to pass school vouchers at the Texas Legislature, which were defeated most recently in 2005. Following the loss, he retreated from the political spotlight. - The Associated Press contributed to this report

    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/08/longtime-perry-benefactor-hosting-meeting-at-home/
  2. 27 Aug '11 20:56
    Those evil Christian conservatives!!
  3. 27 Aug '11 21:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Those evil Christian conservatives!!
    Yes but do Christian conservatives know how to add and subtract and balance their check books? Hmmm?
  4. 27 Aug '11 23:31
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Those evil Christian conservatives!!
    While "evil" doesn't quite capture the nature of their political influence, what truly good ideas do these people bring to the table?

    The US would only benefit if the GOP grew more independent of certain sections of society, whose only purpose it seems is to undo all progress that has been done before.
  5. 28 Aug '11 00:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    While "evil" doesn't quite capture the nature of their political influence, what truly good ideas do these people bring to the table?

    The US would only benefit if the GOP grew more independent of certain sections of society, whose only purpose it seems is to undo all progress that has been done before.
    What "good" ideas does any group bring to the table General? I though democracy was all about representation......except conservative Christians it seems.

    In fact, the majority of Americans are conservative and claim to be Christian. Where then is their representation?
  6. 28 Aug '11 23:53
    Originally posted by whodey
    What "good" ideas does any group bring to the table General? I though democracy was all about representation......except conservative Christians it seems.

    In fact, the majority of Americans are conservative and claim to be Christian. Where then is their representation?
    Im not entirely sure it would contribute to greater representation of the US population if government was to accommodate the whims of Christian conservatives; If Im not mistaken a majority of Americans now either accept or are indifferent to gay marriage, for example, and yet such positions are anathema to Christian conservatives (generally speaking).

    To coddle Christian conservatives as the GOP does, would mean to alienate vasts sections of the US population, gays, atheists, those of a more socially liberal persuasion, etc. Do you agree with this?
  7. 30 Aug '11 23:10
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Im not entirely sure it would contribute to greater representation of the US population if government was to accommodate the whims of Christian conservatives; If Im not mistaken a majority of Americans now either accept or are indifferent to gay marriage, for example, and yet such positions are anathema to Christian conservatives (generally speaking). ...[text shortened]... ation, gays, atheists, those of a more socially liberal persuasion, etc. Do you agree with this?
    It is interesting how you frame questions General. You say that the conservative Christians are in the minority? From polls I have seen support for gay marriage is around 50%. In addition, atheists only comprise less than 10% of the population. And lastly, the majority of Americans are conservative leaning. So who is coddling who General? It would seem that the left is coddling the atheists and gays and socialists more than representing main stream America.
  8. 30 Aug '11 23:20
    According to Wiki, the religious right makes up about 15% of the US electorate.

    They are not a huge group, but they are a significant portion of the population and they do vote.
  9. 30 Aug '11 23:22
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    While "evil" doesn't quite capture the nature of their political influence, what truly good ideas do these people bring to the table?

    The US would only benefit if the GOP grew more independent of certain sections of society, whose only purpose it seems is to undo all progress that has been done before.
    see above quote, balancing check books...... quite a feat it seems these days.
    Now with FEMA broke, and unable to help disaster victims, reality seems to hit home.. instead of running to every country in the world, and pouring money out like drunken sailors, maybe just maybe we should save something for victims that pay taxes in this country.
    Funny I am not seing much about the USA being involved in Libyia for access to their light sweet crude.... well Aljazzera mentions it, but not much from liberal media here at home..... double standards. we don't need no Liybian oil, we need to bring our crews home and drill right here Mr. O
    Tea party Conservative, and not broke.... :-)
  10. 30 Aug '11 23:23
    He's OPENLY meeting with CHRISTIANS???? WTF????
  11. 31 Aug '11 00:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    It is interesting how you frame questions General. You say that the conservative Christians are in the minority? From polls I have seen support for gay marriage is around 50%. In addition, atheists only comprise less than 10% of the population. And lastly, the majority of Americans are conservative leaning. So who is coddling who General? It would seem ...[text shortened]... eft is coddling the atheists and gays and socialists more than representing main stream America.
    I never said conservatives, who happen to be Christians, were in the minority.

    Society is much more diverse and assorted than what your monochrome account of it suggests. There are varying degrees of conservatism as there are differences of opinion among Christians, of all denominations. The Christian conservative tag applies generally to those sections of the electorate who not only espouse far-right views but far-right views with a distinct religious flavor- and while the majority of Americans do indeed profess belief in Christianity they don't necessarily embrace its fundamentalist strands, nor do they seek to impose their religiously-inspired moral code on others through the government.

    In opposition to Christian conservatives there are of course atheists, but by no means only atheists, like I have said there will also be gays, perhaps those of different religions, and people of a more socially liberal persuasion (who can also be Christians).

    It would seem that the left is coddling the atheists and gays and socialists more than representing main stream America.

    The Left is not a unified, monolithic entity, regardless of how many times you claim otherwise. And I wasn't talking about left or right coddling any particular group, I was talking about political parties. I don't see the Democrats coddling atheists or gays, or even socialists in the same way Republicans coddle Christian conservatives. Do presidential hopefuls from the Democratic field "meet" with groups of atheists, gays, and socialists the same way Rick Perry, and etc, meet with Christian conservatives?

    As for mainstream America, that is a rather elusive, faceless crowd don't you think? how can you possibly determine where they stand, ideologically?
  12. 31 Aug '11 00:48
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    I never said conservatives, who happen to be Christians, were in the minority.

    Society is much more diverse and assorted than what your monochrome account of it suggests. There are varying degrees of conservatism as there are differences of opinion among Christians, of all denominations. The Christian conservative tag applies generally to those sect ...[text shortened]... ess crowd don't you think? how can you possibly determine where they stand, ideologically?
    Great post, but unfortunately whodey doesn't do nuance. He does over simplistic caricatures drawn through the prism of his right-wing ideology.
  13. 31 Aug '11 01:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    The Left is not a unified, monolithic entity, regardless of how many times you claim otherwise. And I wasn't talking about left or right coddling any particular group, I was talking about political parties. I don't see the Democrats coddling atheists or gays, or even socialists in the same way Republicans coddle Christian conservatives. Do presidential ho less crowd don't you think? how can you possibly determine where they stand, ideologically?[/b]
    You act as though the left is somehow different from the right. To win a primary you appease the extreme right or left of your respective party. Then you move towards the center for the general election.

    As for coddling the right, what exactly has the GOP done for the Christian right issues? Have they stopped aboriton? Have they outlawed gay marriage? Have they forced creationism to be taught in schools? Do they control deficit spending? No. All they do is give lip service to these groups in the hopes of support.

    I suppose you could argue that simply ignoring them is the thing to do. However, "W" famously said he would ride them into the White House and did. Can this work a second time seeing that support for "W" left them and their interests out in the cold? I can't answer that one, but by in large I would gather support has waned for these demagogues.
  14. 31 Aug '11 01:08
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Great post, but unfortunately whodey doesn't do nuance. He does over simplistic caricatures drawn through the prism of his right-wing ideology.
    Well, perhaps one of these days he'll add a few more colors to his black and white picture of the world. we can only hope.
  15. 31 Aug '11 01:11
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Great post, but unfortunately whodey doesn't do nuance. He does over simplistic caricatures drawn through the prism of his right-wing ideology.
    The fact of the matter is that political positions are very much polarized. We are conditioned for a group think type of stance on issues. For example, those on the left are for abortion, gay marriage, increased entitlements and spending, and anti-zionist. The right can be seen largely a polar opposite.

    Of coarse, you can argue and it is true that this is not the case for everyone, for which I would agree, however, in large part I'm right and it pisses you off doesn't it? In fact, I have pretty much outlined your positions by such stereotypes have I not?