Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 19 Aug '13 22:50 / 1 edit
    Story;
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/peru-drug-arrests-were-forced-2159057

    Two Scottish girls hoped to trip the light fantastic home with £1.5m of coke in food packs from Peru. Sadly the plan failed. I read somewhere they could wait up to 3 years before standing trial, which is bad. The prison they were going to didn't look like hell.

    A much worse case is Lindy Stafford who has been sent to an atrocious jail pending firing squad at the age of 56+ for the same crime - they should close bali airport if they go through with that, lest it gets closed for them.

    What do you make of these girls situation? Is it right they should spend there 20s and 30s in jail for this?





    Just my view but cocaine is common in London, very common in parts of Spain, where the girls departed, and is, like it or not, the economy of Peru in some parts. So I find there sentences way too harsh and hypocritical. The Stafford case is so serious especially given balis slack laws on many things I'd want the UK to close the Embassy.
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    19 Aug '13 22:52
    Drug prohibition is bad mmk
  3. 19 Aug '13 23:43 / 5 edits
    might sound like I'm implying some attack on bali if they kill Lindsay Sandiford - I'm not personally, but it has to be pointed out they have already been subject to a large terrorist attack -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings

    And I can't help but point out her treatment encourages another. A devout muslim country might get away with it but bali is anything but. As for the treatment of the girls in Peru, it does sound bad yet a lot better. I hope they get a light sentence but pleading not guilty won't help.
  4. 20 Aug '13 01:19 / 6 edits
    I live in Lenzie where one of the girls come from and went to the same school as Melissa Ried but i dont know her or her parents, snorting coke at parties in Ibiza, sounds like she was sucked in, seven years in jail will sober her up.
  5. 20 Aug '13 01:32
    When in a foreign land, it is wise to know their laws. Anyone with the money to hop on a plane to Peru or Bali should realize the risks of trying to sneak drugs out of the country. Peru's airports are loaded with drug sniffing dogs.
  6. Subscriber Kewpieonline
    since 1-Feb-07
    20 Aug '13 01:46 / 1 edit
    Walking alone at night in a rough neighbourhood is stupid behaviour, likely to lead to something you didn't want to happen, but it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't done the stupid behaviour in the first place.

    Drug smuggling is stupid behaviour, likely to lead to something you didn't want to happen, but it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't done the stupid behaviour in the first place.

    Why would you waste your sympathy on either stupid person? It's not something you do by accident, is it?
  7. 20 Aug '13 15:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    Walking alone at night in a rough neighbourhood is stupid behaviour, likely to lead to something you didn't want to happen, but it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't done the stupid behaviour in the first place.

    Drug smuggling is stupid behaviour, likely to lead to something you didn't want to happen, but it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't done the ...[text shortened]... ste your sympathy on either stupid person? It's not something you do by accident, is it?
    I have no sympathy with a system that is rightly quite lax on drug users but takes the dealers lives away, for what is a five minute conversation. If I ran a travel agent I would close every single route to bali for what they have done , systematically. As for the girls in Peru - that country grows a lot of coca- it grows there anyway, I don't think they can be too harsh (my understanding is they are not particularly, but a cocaine based economy is dangerous)
  8. 20 Aug '13 15:52
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I have no sympathy with a system that is rightly quite lax on drug users but takes the dealers lives away, for what is a five minute conversation. If I ran a travel agent I would close every single route to bali for what they have done , systematically. As for the girls in Peru - that country grows a lot of coca- it grows there anyway, I don't think they can ...[text shortened]... harsh (my understanding is they are not particularly, but a cocaine based economy is dangerous)
    the trouble in these regions is that the cartels come in and take over land that people want to farm essentially forcing them to flee, fight or acquiesce, I mean what can a villager do against the weaponry that they possess.
  9. 20 Aug '13 15:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    the trouble in these regions is that the cartels come in and take over land that people want to farm essentially forcing them to flee, fight or acquiesce, I mean what can a villager do against the weaponry that they possess.
    True, I read maybe bias reports that parts of Colombia Peru Mexico are lawless and have armed gangs - but they are still minorities compared to the government, with anti coca initiatives, often backed the America - the airports for example clearly aren't lawless.

    I read there was a president forget who in S America who said people should take coca leaves as tea , it's legal to do so. I get the impression both the dealers and the police are way to well armed and cocaine gives people a temper making it worse.
  10. 20 Aug '13 17:39 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by e4chris
    True, I read maybe bias reports that parts of Colombia Peru Mexico are lawless and have armed gangs - but they are still minorities compared to the government, with anti coca initiatives, often backed the America - the airports for example clearly aren't lawless.

    I read there was a president forget who in S America who said people should take coca leaves ealers and the police are way to well armed and cocaine gives people a temper making it worse.
    yeah the indigenous people eat coca leaves, its the manufacturing of cocaine that is so bad, not only for the coke addicts, the drug runners and the governments who oppose them, but for the environment as well, a lot of chemicals are needed in the process and it just gets dumped into the forest.
  11. 22 Aug '13 18:56
    I have no sympathy at all for any dealer or runner of drugs,
  12. 22 Aug '13 19:42 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by e4chris to Kewpie
    I have no sympathy with a system that is rightly quite lax on drug users but takes the dealers lives away, for what is a five minute conversation. If I ran a travel agent I would close every single route to bali for what they have done , systematically. As for the girls in Peru - that country grows a lot of coca- it grows there anyway, I don't thin ...[text shortened]... harsh (my understanding is they are not particularly, but a cocaine based economy is dangerous)
    I have a problem with disproportionate attention and sympathy being given
    (at least in the Western media) to drug dealers or smugglers on account of
    their nationality and race/ethnicity rather than their actions and motives.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_and_Chambers_execution

    In 1986, Malayasia executed Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers, white
    Australian men, for smuggling heroin. There was a public outcry in
    Australia, condemnation of the executions by Australia's Prime Minister
    Bob Hawke, and sympathy for the drug smugglers in parts of the UK media.
    A television miniseries 'Dadah is Death', starring Julie Christie, was produced.

    Before executing white people for the first time, Malayasia had executed
    scores of East Asians (largely ethnic Chinese) with no objection other than
    by some activists opposed to the death penalty. After Malayasia resumed
    executing non-white people for drug offences, the Western media resumed
    its usual silence and comparative lack of concern.

    If I recall correctly (it's been a long time), there was a case in Malayasia
    after Barlows and Chambers were executed. It seemed like a tragic story.
    A young not-yet-married couple from Hong Kong (then under UK colonial
    rule) was going to be executed for drug offences. She was pregnant and,
    needing money to get married (as he had promised her), she had agreed
    to help him smuggling drugs 'just this once'. She had no criminal record.
    After they were sentenced to death, he begged the court at least to spare
    her life so she could live to see their child grow up. As British subjects,
    the ethnic Chinese couple and their supporters in Hong Kong asked the UK
    government for help, but the UK government seemed even less interested
    than in the case of white Australians. So he was hanged. Shortly after
    she gave birth, she also was hanged. Their baby would be brought up by
    her parents in Hong Kong. I believe that Malayasia should have spared
    her life on humanitarian grounds. She was young, foolish, desperate, and
    too much in love with the wrong man at the wrong time, but did all that
    and her criminal act mean that she deserved to be put to death?
  13. 22 Aug '13 19:54
    Originally posted by stoker
    I have no sympathy at all for any dealer or runner of drugs,
    I have some sympathy for the people who are compelled by force or
    impelled by desperate circumstances to participate in drug trafficking.
  14. 22 Aug '13 20:11
    Originally posted by e4chris
    Story;
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/peru-drug-arrests-were-forced-2159057

    Two Scottish girls hoped to trip the light fantastic home with £1.5m of coke in food packs from Peru. Sadly the plan failed. I read somewhere they could wait up to 3 years before standing trial, which is bad. The prison they were going to didn't look like hell.
    ...[text shortened]... serious especially given balis slack laws on many things I'd want the UK to close the Embassy.
    Sky news said that the girls are from Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    This has been repeated over and over by Sky News that one is Scottish
    and the other is Irish.

    But if they had both won gold medals in the Olympic Games
    then they would be described as British.

    Once again the English propaganda machine swings into action.

    They cannot have it both ways. The girls are British.

    Britain now claims Andy Murray.

    When he was losing he was Scottish.

    Now all of a sudden he is British.
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    22 Aug '13 20:16 / 2 edits
    The Welsh, Cornish and Brittanians in France are Britons, not the English
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j617mImHVvk

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Britain_peoples_circa_600.svg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Britonia6hcentury.png