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Debates Forum

  1. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    26 Feb '11 19:42 / 1 edit
    People from around the world have been donating money to buy pizza for the Wisconsin protesters, from Ian's Pizza, in Madison. Ian's Pizza has shut down normal operations and is concentrating exclusively on processing orders from around the world as people everywhere stand in solidarity with the protesters. Here is their list of countries who have had someone donate a pizza to the cause. It even includes an order from a man in Iran who managed to sneak out a call from a hospital to lend his support.

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150400241850048&set=a.10150200994025048.441676.187063310047&theater

    In the struggle between capital and labor, capital has always held an advantage due in part to its extreme mobility. Money can easily be shifted around the globe, while labor, by comparison, is tied to a specific locale. If labor is able to harness social media as effectively elsewhere as they've done in the pizza campaign, it could represent an evening of those odds. Labor from around the world could provide mutual support to one another and help nullify capital's advantage in mobility.
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    26 Feb '11 19:54
    You can also help the protesters by going to http://www.helpdefendwisconsin.org/ and making a donation there (which is what I did). I guess it's not as exciting as buying them a pizza, though.
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    26 Feb '11 20:06
    Originally posted by rwingett
    People from around the world have been donating money to buy pizza for the Wisconsin protesters, from Ian's Pizza, in Madison. Ian's Pizza has shut down normal operations and is concentrating exclusively on processing orders from around the world as people everywhere stand in solidarity with the protesters. Here is their list of countries who have had someo ...[text shortened]... ould provide mutual support to one another and help nullify capital's advantage in mobility.
    'Qu'ils mangent de la brioche'
  4. 26 Feb '11 20:08
    is solicitation a TOS violation?
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    27 Feb '11 00:42
    As much as I agree that unions need to share in the hardship when companies and states do badly, I do think that Walker is going overboard here and I will not defend him. From what I can glean, the unions are willing to take their share of the cuts, but Walker is insisting on stripping them of their leverage to negotiate in the future. Overkill and unnecessary.
  6. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    27 Feb '11 02:55
    Originally posted by sh76
    As much as I agree that unions need to share in the hardship when companies and states do badly, I do think that Walker is going overboard here and I will not defend him. From what I can glean, the unions are willing to take their share of the cuts, but Walker is insisting on stripping them of their leverage to negotiate in the future. Overkill and unnecessary.
    This confrontation has nothing to do with the balancing of the budget. The Republicans created the budget deficit for the specific purpose of delivering a final death blow to the unions. But their strategy has galvanized the labor movement like nothing else in years. I think it's going to backfire on them badly in 2012.
  7. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    27 Feb '11 04:58
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I think it's going to backfire on them badly in 2012.
    I can't wait for the "us versus them" rhetoric - from both sides - that is sure to emerge in the context of that 2012 debate.
  8. 27 Feb '11 08:32
    in the Time article i posted to the other thread, Illinois had the worst problem re public pension debt. it's like the black hole! wisconsin and indiana cannot escape!
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    27 Feb '11 15:31
    Originally posted by rwingett
    This confrontation has nothing to do with the balancing of the budget. The Republicans created the budget deficit for the specific purpose of delivering a final death blow to the unions. But their strategy has galvanized the labor movement like nothing else in years. I think it's going to backfire on them badly in 2012.
    Leave it to you to take an issue where the unions are finally right on one and muck it up with wild conspiracy theories...

    Virtually every state has a budget deficit; which are based on the sagging economy and overly ambitious spending projects irresponsibly entered into by the politicians (of both parties; though the blue states were the worst offenders) during the fat years. To say that it was a Republican creation of this year with a purpose is bizarre.



    Hold on a sec... You're not just being sardonic, are you?
  10. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    27 Feb '11 16:07
    Originally posted by sh76
    As much as I agree that unions need to share in the hardship when companies and states do badly, I do think that Walker is going overboard here and I will not defend him. From what I can glean, the unions are willing to take their share of the cuts, but Walker is insisting on stripping them of their leverage to negotiate in the future. Overkill and unnecessary.
    Unnecessary? Wow. The system is corrupt.

    These special interest groups A) collect money, which ultimately comes from the taxpayer, B) use that money to elect who they want, and then C) negotiate with those they just elected to take even more money from the taxpayers. Wash, rinse, repeat, until bankruptcy looms.

    Now that taxpayers have finally woken up and tried to use democracy to stop getting robbed, the unions throw a tantrum and make you feel all sorry for them.
  11. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    27 Feb '11 16:08
    Originally posted by sh76
    Leave it to you to take an issue where the unions are finally right on one and muck it up with wild conspiracy theories...

    Virtually every state has a budget deficit; which are based on the sagging economy and overly ambitious spending projects irresponsibly entered into by the politicians (of both parties; though the blue states were the worst offenders) du ...[text shortened]... ear with a purpose is bizarre.



    Hold on a sec... You're not just being sardonic, are you?
    And leave it to you to pass the obvious truth off as a mere conspiracy theory. I suppose it is your misplaced ardor for the Republican party and your reluctance to believe that they're really nothing but a cabal of Machiavellian stooges for the rich is what compels you to do so.

    The budget deficits you refer to have been caused by massive tax breaks for corporations and the rich over the years. In order to pay for these irresponsible corporate handouts, the Republicans have decided to gut support for the working class. In the long run it is the working people of this country who end up paying for those tax cuts for the rich. It represents the greatest theft of wealth in the history of the world. But that didn't happen just this year. That's been the longstanding Republican strategy for decades.

    What has happened this year, though, is the final, concentrated attack on unions. The attempted knockout blow to the working class. Twelve states put forward similar legislation as that in Wisconsin. Its purpose is twofold: (1) To leave the working class completely defenseless against their rapacious corporate masters, and (2) to permanently cripple the Democratic party. Yes, that's right. The unions have been some of the biggest financial supporters of the Dems over the years. The attack on the unions is specifically being orchestrated in an attempt to crush them, remove that financial backing, and thereby leave the Democratic party at a permanent financial disadvantage. The economic agenda of the rich will then have no organized opposition at all. Big business will be free to buy lawmakers at will. For you to maintain that this is not an organized attack demonstrates an incredible ability on your part to bury your head in the sand.

    Make no mistake - the battle in Wisconsin is the pivotal event in class war the Republicans have been waging against the working class for decades. Defeat here will have catastrophic repercussions throughout the nation. Labor and the working class instinctively recognize this and they have been galvanized by it. The protest are growing, and they are spreading throughout the nation. My guess is that we've only just seen the beginning.
  12. 27 Feb '11 16:19
    It is indeed class war. The Republican party agenda is strenghtened by creating barriers that prohibit middle and hlower income groups from having any hope in joining their piggish prosperity. Tey go about this by disenfranchising the vast majority of Americans. It is in their favor to have a populace that is less healthy, less educated, and have less income.
  13. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    27 Feb '11 22:07
    The mighty Ian's chalkboard continues to grow:

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150401561835048&set=a.10150200994025048.441676.187063310047&theater

    It's funny that the US has a long history of lecturing other countries on democracy, but now they're returning the favor. People from countries across the globe are contributing to the salvation of our democracy.
  14. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    27 Feb '11 22:53
    Originally posted by sh76
    As much as I agree that unions need to share in the hardship when companies and states do badly, I do think that Walker is going overboard here and I will not defend him. From what I can glean, the unions are willing to take their share of the cuts, but Walker is insisting on stripping them of their leverage to negotiate in the future. Overkill and unnecessary.
    ahhh....a voice of reason!
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    27 Feb '11 22:55
    Originally posted by bill718
    ahhh....a voice of reason!
    sh76's "reasonable period" didn't last 24 hours. http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=138129&page=1