Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Garner, NC
    Joined
    04 Nov '05
    Moves
    27886
    22 Jun '15 16:49
    http://ktla.com/2015/06/20/suspect-allegedly-shoots-kills-new-orleans-police-officer-transporting-him-to-prison-manhunt-underway/

    I don't suppose this will be a controversial issue and probably won't be discussed much nationally. But in a few recent threads it has been pointed out over and over that Michael Brown was unarmed, as if that means it is an open and shut case that Wilson is therefore guilty of murder.

    Some cannot seem to imagine how a scenario can unfold where an unarmed man can do any harm to a person who is armed.

    Here is one case where the officer is dead. And I know some of you will breath a sign of relief that the criminal wasn't hurt instead. Had the officer reacted a millisecond too early and shot the prisoner, we'd all enjoy the luxury of second-guessing his decision making through careful analysis from the safety of our homes.

    But let's dispense with this nonsense that because someone is "unarmed" that it trumps any need for any other facts about the case.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    22 Jun '15 17:04
    Originally posted by techsouth
    http://ktla.com/2015/06/20/suspect-allegedly-shoots-kills-new-orleans-police-officer-transporting-him-to-prison-manhunt-underway/

    I don't suppose this will be a controversial issue and probably won't be discussed much nationally. But in a few recent threads it has been pointed out over and over that Michael Brown was unarmed, as if that means it is an ...[text shortened]... se that because someone is "unarmed" that it trumps any need for any other facts about the case.
    TS: But let's dispense with this nonsense that because someone is "unarmed" that it trumps any need for any other facts about the case.

    Let's dispense with the nonsense that anybody ever made such a claim.
  3. Garner, NC
    Joined
    04 Nov '05
    Moves
    27886
    22 Jun '15 17:15
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    TS: But let's dispense with this nonsense that because someone is "unarmed" that it trumps any need for any other facts about the case.

    Let's dispense with the nonsense that anybody ever made such a claim.
    The fact that Michael Brown was unarmed has been repeated over and over and over again with the clear intend to dismiss the importance of many other easily known facts.
  4. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23143
    22 Jun '15 17:28
    Originally posted by techsouth
    http://ktla.com/2015/06/20/suspect-allegedly-shoots-kills-new-orleans-police-officer-transporting-him-to-prison-manhunt-underway/

    I don't suppose this will be a controversial issue and probably won't be discussed much nationally. But in a few recent threads it has been pointed out over and over that Michael Brown was unarmed, as if that means it is an ...[text shortened]... se that because someone is "unarmed" that it trumps any need for any other facts about the case.
    Perhaps the officer did not properly handcuff the prisoner. Seems like it would be reasonable to have two officers transporting a prisoner.
  5. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9780
    22 Jun '15 17:542 edits
    Originally posted by techsouth
    The fact that Michael Brown was unarmed has been repeated over and over and over again with the clear intend to dismiss the importance of many other easily known facts.
    That wasn't the only reason it was controversial. There were witnesses that claimed Brown had surrendered with his arms over his head, and was shot anyway. There was also the fact that there were about seven bullet wounds, including one to the head; this made some people believe that Brown was fleeing, since few people would continue to attack after being hit with one bullet, let alone five more. On top of this, the city in which Brown was killed (Ferguson) has quite a history of alleged police misconduct toward blacks; that fact alone added a lot more to the controversial nature of Brown's case.

    Personally, I don't think Brown is comparable with a case like Treyvon Martin. Martin was an unarmed kid minding his own business who was needlessly killed by a (Hispanic) white man. Brown was apparently a scumbag who robbed a store earlier that day, and seemed to be looking for trouble.
  6. Garner, NC
    Joined
    04 Nov '05
    Moves
    27886
    22 Jun '15 18:33
    Originally posted by vivify
    That wasn't the only reason it was controversial. There were witnesses that claimed Brown had surrendered with his arms over his head, and was shot anyway. There was also the fact that there were about seven bullet wounds, including one to the head; this made some people believe that Brown was fleeing, since few people would continue to attack after being h ...[text shortened]... apparently a scumbag who robbed a store earlier that day, and seemed to be looking for trouble.
    Potentially interesting conversations. Too bad none of these points can be discussed in detail without someone bringing up the fact that Brown was unarmed as if that ends all other debate. The fact that Brown was unarmed will serve as an eternal thought-stopper to short circuit any discussion of other points of contention.
  7. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    22 Jun '15 19:041 edit
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Perhaps the officer did not properly handcuff the prisoner. Seems like it would be reasonable to have two officers transporting a prisoner.
    Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Since he was not properly handcuffed, he really didn't shoot the police officer. Obviously Techsouth doesn't really have a point.

    Great logic there.
  8. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    22 Jun '15 19:08
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    TS: But let's dispense with this nonsense that because someone is "unarmed" that it trumps any need for any other facts about the case.

    Let's dispense with the nonsense that anybody ever made such a claim.
    Yes you want your cake and eat it too!

    If a cop regains control of the gun long enough to shoot the bad guy, then the cop shoots an unarmed guy.

    If the bad guy gains control and shoots the cop, then an armed suspect shoots the cop.

    It must be great living in your world where you get to decide how things should be viewed.
  9. Garner, NC
    Joined
    04 Nov '05
    Moves
    27886
    22 Jun '15 19:30
    Originally posted by vivify
    That wasn't the only reason it was controversial. There were witnesses that claimed Brown had surrendered with his arms over his head, and was shot anyway. There was also the fact that there were about seven bullet wounds, including one to the head; this made some people believe that Brown was fleeing, since few people would continue to attack after being h ...[text shortened]... apparently a scumbag who robbed a store earlier that day, and seemed to be looking for trouble.
    I should also bring up that much of what you say here are things that have been thoroughly debunked. I don't know why these debunked claims keep coming up. Are we ever going to dispense with the fantasy that Brown was fleeing when he was shot?

    But how long would we be able to discuss that before someone jumps in the thread with condescending remarks about how Brown was "unarmed" as if that trumps all discussion?
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    13035
    22 Jun '15 19:341 edit
    a suspect being transported to prison allegedly shot and killed the police officer who was driving him, officials said.

    According to that report it is all just alleged against the poor suspect. No need to jump to conclusions. 😉
  11. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
    08 Mar '11
    Moves
    9780
    22 Jun '15 20:041 edit
    Originally posted by techsouth
    I should also bring up that much of what you say here are things that have been thoroughly debunked. I don't know why these debunked claims keep coming up. Are we ever going to dispense with the fantasy that Brown was fleeing when he was shot?

    I never disputed that. I'm only pointing out how there was more than one issue that caused controversy.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    22 Jun '15 22:16
    Originally posted by techsouth
    The fact that Michael Brown was unarmed has been repeated over and over and over again with the clear intend to dismiss the importance of many other easily known facts.
    The question of whether someone is armed is a relevant factor in whether the use of deadly force was justified.
  13. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    23 Jun '15 07:21
    Originally posted by techsouth
    http://ktla.com/2015/06/20/suspect-allegedly-shoots-kills-new-orleans-police-officer-transporting-him-to-prison-manhunt-underway/

    I don't suppose this will be a controversial issue and probably won't be discussed much nationally. But in a few recent threads it has been pointed out over and over that Michael Brown was unarmed, as if that means it is an ...[text shortened]... se that because someone is "unarmed" that it trumps any need for any other facts about the case.
    you are sickening
  14. Garner, NC
    Joined
    04 Nov '05
    Moves
    27886
    23 Jun '15 13:27
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The question of whether someone is armed is a relevant factor in whether the use of deadly force was justified.
    Relevant, yes. Trumps all else, no.

    And when facts are known that show Wilson's life was in danger even though Brown didn't have a gun, then the fact that Brown was unarmed ceases to be particularly germane.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    23 Jun '15 13:50
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Since he was not properly handcuffed, he really didn't shoot the police officer. Obviously Techsouth doesn't really have a point.

    Great logic there.
    So, let me get this? That an officer makes a mistake is a good reason for him to be dead? It obviously forgives the transgression of the killer?

    The attempts at distraction from the point of the OP are insane. I've argued, rather that nobody with bad intentions is "unarmed". Karate means empty hands. Many other deadly martial arts require no additional weapons but one's own body. And a resourceful human can use many things as weapons, so the notion of innocence due to being unarmed is ludicrous.
Back to Top