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  1. Standard memberwittywonka
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    02 Oct '18 21:411 edit
    https://tinyurl.com/y8nb6rvh

    A man emailed recently in response to something I’d written about street harassment. He was so glad, he said, that his college-age daughter never experienced anything like that. Less than a day later, he wrote again. They had just talked. She told him she’d been harassed many, many times — including that week. She hadn’t ever shared this, because she wanted to protect him from her pain.

    For all the stereotypes that linger about women being too fragile or emotional, these past weeks have revealed what many women already knew: A lot of effort goes into protecting men we love from bad things that happen to us. And a lot of fathers are closer to bad things than they’ll ever know.

    “Two of my daughters have told me stories that I had never heard before about things that happened to them in high school,” Fox News anchor Chris Wallace mused on air last Thursday, as he urged skeptical viewers to carefully consider the testimony of Christine Blasey Ford.

    If you are a father who hasn’t heard these stories, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. They’ve been pouring into my inbox almost every day.

    To the father of the young woman who was assaulted by the student athlete she was hired to tutor: She never told you because she didn’t want to break your heart. But she told me, in a long email, because the memory of it was breaking her own heart and she’d spent five years replaying it.

    To the father of the junior high student who was pinned down and undressed at a gathering 30 years ago: She didn’t tell you because she didn’t want to see you cry. But she told me that she still remembers every detail.

    To the father of the teenager who was raped at a party. You don’t know about this, because she was certain that if you knew, you would kill her attacker and go to prison, and it would be her fault.

    To the father of the son who was assaulted by an older man: I wish I could tell you more about what happened to him, but he wouldn’t tell me, and he definitely won’t tell you, because manliness is important to you, he says.

    To all the fathers of all the silent victims: Your children are quietly carrying these stories, not because they can’t handle their emotions but because they’re worried that you can’t. They are worried that your emotions will have too many consequences. Or they fear you won’t think of them the same way. Or that you’ll be distraught because you didn’t protect them.

    “It meant I would have to talk about something sexual,” one woman wrote me, about why it took her decades to tell her father about an assault at a pool party when she was 10. “And that was a completely taboo subject.”

    I have been thinking lately about taboos, and how many of them exist because women don’t want to make men uncomfortable with lady pain — a broad spectrum that includes cramps, breast-feeding, the viscera of childbirth, the achiness of menstruation.

    Some grown men still react to tampons as if they’re grenades, and as a result, many grown women still furtively pass them between ourselves in shadowy corridors, so nobody else feels awkward.

    It’s silly, and we must know this at some level. But if the mention of Tampax makes a man need a fainting couch, is it any wonder we decide he’s not ready to hear messier stories?

    A dear friend shared this week that she was repeatedly molested as a kid. She’s fine now, she said. The only reason she hadn’t spoken up publicly was because her father still didn’t know; it would devastate him. She saw the irony in this — that even in her own recovery, she had been concerned with shielding a man from agony.

    “But Lord, my dad’s done an awful lot for me,” she wrote. “And I can and will do this for him.”

    This makes sense to me. All of us want to protect our loved ones from painful information. I don’t want this woman’s father to have to deal with it either.

    But when I think of my friend’s valiant secrecy, I want to cry.

    So, to the rest of you: If you can tell your father in a way that feels safe, and in a way that would bring you comfort, tell your father. Tell your brothers. Let them be uncomfortable; let them share some of your pain. Don’t let them be ignorant. If your fathers are going to form beliefs about how victims should act and what perpetrators look like, then force your father to deal with the complication of making those assumptions about someone he loves.

    And if you yourself are a father, and you believe this would never happen to your daughter — how do you know?

    She might not have told you. But she has told me.

    A 50-something woman called me this week. She told me her father was the parent she always wanted to impress; disappointing him was the worst thing she could imagine. That’s what was in her mind 40 years ago when a group of neighborhood boys lured her into a house and assaulted her, one of them watching the door, two of them digitally penetrating her. She was thinking about how she didn’t want to disappoint her father.

    Last week, this woman began feeling like her dad couldn’t really know who she was unless she told him about the attack. She called him, and the story came out in a tumble.

    On the telephone that day, she says, he spoke to her in his “dad voice.” Not the adult tone he usually used when they talked now. But in the voice of her childhood, comforting and parental.

    In his dad voice, he told her she didn’t have to share the whole story with him now. But when she was ready, he wanted to listen.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    03 Oct '18 00:04
    Originally posted by @wittywonka
    https://tinyurl.com/y8nb6rvh

    A man emailed recently in response to something I’d written about street harassment. He was so glad, he said, that his college-age daughter never experienced anything like that. Less than a day later, he wrote again. They had just talked. She told him she’d been harassed many, many times — including that week. She hadn’t e ...[text shortened]... didn’t have to share the whole story with him now. But when she was ready, he wanted to listen.
    Thank you for this.

    I wish more men could understand.
  3. Joined
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    03 Oct '18 00:13
    Originally posted by @wittywonka
    https://tinyurl.com/y8nb6rvh

    A man emailed recently in response to something I’d written about street harassment. He was so glad, he said, that his college-age daughter never experienced anything like that. Less than a day later, he wrote again. They had just talked. She told him she’d been harassed many, many times — including that week. She hadn’t e ...[text shortened]... didn’t have to share the whole story with him now. But when she was ready, he wanted to listen.
    great wapo article...did Soros write it?
  4. Joined
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    03 Oct '18 00:15
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    Thank you for this.

    I wish more men could understand.
    I wish women wouldn't make false claims ,don't you? Then maybe the real cases would get more attention.
  5. Zugzwang
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    03 Oct '18 00:242 edits
    Originally posted by @suzianne to WittyWonka
    Thank you for this.
    I wish more men could understand.
    Adults in my family told me that if 'something bad' ever happened to me, they never wanted to know it.
    I must keep silent at all costs. I was told that it would be better for me to die than to talk and bring shame.
    They were absolutely serious about all this. (My life never was considered important by them.)

    I never expected the Me-too movement to emerge.
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    03 Oct '18 01:50
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Adults in my family told me that if 'something bad' ever happened to me, they never wanted to know it.
    I must keep silent at all costs. I was told that it would be better for me to die than to talk and bring shame.
    They were absolutely serious about all this. (My life never was considered important by them.)

    I never expected the Me-too movement to emerge.
    My heart felt sympathy to you for such a deeply hurtful childhood. Such wounds really never heal, we just learn to somehow get on with our life.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    03 Oct '18 01:57
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    I wish women wouldn't make false claims ,don't you? Then maybe the real cases would get more attention.
    You don't think there are ANY real cases.

    Stop trying to convince anyone you might actually be human.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    03 Oct '18 02:03
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Adults in my family told me that if 'something bad' ever happened to me, they never wanted to know it.
    I must keep silent at all costs. I was told that it would be better for me to die than to talk and bring shame.
    They were absolutely serious about all this. (My life never was considered important by them.)

    I never expected the Me-too movement to emerge.
    I'm sorry about your family. I can't imagine what that was like. I always had the full support of my family.

    I knew there had to be a tipping point, where the silence just would not be maintained any longer. But I agree it's been a long time coming.
  9. Standard memberwittywonka
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    03 Oct '18 03:57
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    great wapo article...did Soros write it?
    I know this is an anonymous Internet forum where it’s “cool” to score points with sick sarcastic burns—I do it too sometimes—but really? THAT’S the best you can muster after reading this article? I genuinely feel sorry for you. Not in a “wow, weak comeback” kind of way. More in a “you clearly have some deep-seated antipathy or sociopathy—what happened in your life to make you like this” kind of way.
  10. Standard memberwittywonka
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    03 Oct '18 13:13
    @suzianne said
    You don't think there are ANY real cases.
    Well stated. So often, people--certainly not exclusively Republicans, but certainly Republicans as of late--only perceive "real" cases as the ones that aren't inconvenient.
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    03 Oct '18 15:14
    @duchess64 said
    Adults in my family told me that if 'something bad' ever happened to me, they never wanted to know it.
    I must keep silent at all costs. I was told that it would be better for me to die than to talk and bring shame.
    They were absolutely serious about all this. (My life never was considered important by them.)

    I never expected the Me-too movement to emerge.
    LMFAO!!! OMG!
  12. Joined
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    03 Oct '18 15:15
    @wittywonka said
    Well stated. So often, people--certainly not exclusively Republicans, but certainly Republicans as of late--only perceive "real" cases as the ones that aren't inconvenient.
    Would you say Keith Ellison is a "real" case?
  13. Zugzwang
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    03 Oct '18 18:39
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/03/trump-mockery-christine-blasey-ford-sexual-assault-script-male-dominance

    "Trump mocking Christine Blasey Ford shows how women are silenced.
    Ford is facing the same humiliation as thousands of sexual assault complainants before her.
    We need to rip up this script of male domination."

    "He ]Donald Trump] had already questioned on Twitter why the 15-year-old Ford
    had not reported the assault to police. And on Tuesday night, at a campaign rally in
    Mississippi, he mocked her and her testimony in front of a baying and cheering audience. "

    "Hence why she says she can remember Kavanaugh and his friend Mark Judge
    laughing, but not the exact address of the party. Not that any of this matters to
    those who mock her. Trump’s election showed that a woman displaying infinitely
    more intelligence and composure than the man she is up against means little.
    The man can rant and rage and wail, and he will still be more believable to some.
    The societal message remains: women lie."

    "In the past year, the #MeToo and Time’s Up movements have done much to draw
    attention to the reality that many women have known their entire lives: that there
    are men who view us as less, and that part of that process involves refusing to
    recognise our bodily autonomy as human beings. But Trump’s mocking performance
    shows how much work remains to be done, not to mention acting as a perfect
    illustration for why so many women do not report rape and sexual assault in the
    first place – for fear of such mockery and humiliation. Ford is undergoing the same
    treatment as thousands of survivor/victims before her: women who come forward
    have a hidden agenda, they are not to be trusted, their confused little brains are unreliable.
    The script these men are reading from is centuries old and deeply ingrained in our cultural schema.
    It is especially resonant to the religious right, who accept men’s supposed superiority
    over women because their kind of Christianity is steeped in it, though hypocrisy is rife:
    abortion is a sin, unless it’s needed for my mistress."

    "The #MeToo movement gave women their own script, a script that reads “I believe her”,
    but it is not enough. Tearing up the old script is much more difficult, especially in a
    country as religiously conservative as the United States. It will take time and effort.
    Sadly, we’ll see countless women mocked and belittled before we get there."
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    03 Oct '18 19:17
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/03/trump-mockery-christine-blasey-ford-sexual-assault-script-male-dominance

    "Trump mocking Christine Blasey Ford shows how women are silenced.
    Ford is facing the same humiliation as thousands of sexual assault complainants before her.
    We need to rip up this script of male domination."

    "He ]Donald Trump] had already ...[text shortened]... take time and effort.
    Sadly, we’ll see countless women mocked and belittled before we get there."
    Would you say Keith Ellison is a "real" case?
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    03 Oct '18 20:06
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/03/trump-mockery-christine-blasey-ford-sexual-assault-script-male-dominance

    "Trump mocking Christine Blasey Ford shows how women are silenced.
    Ford is facing the same humiliation as thousands of sexual assault complainants before her.
    We need to rip up this script of male domination."

    "He ]Donald Trump] had already ...[text shortened]... take time and effort.
    Sadly, we’ll see countless women mocked and belittled before we get there."
    Yes, yes, YES.

    Another harsh reality is the many conservative women, perhaps eager to claim the "higher ground", who defend these men and "slut-shame" these victims of men.

    This is shameful and disgusting.
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