Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membershavixmir
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    22 Sep '16 22:24
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I suggest you visit Syria for the entertainment value.
    I did see they've got a beach brochure out!

    Quite cheap at the moment.
  2. Joined
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    23 Sep '16 13:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    So what is everyones prediction for the upcoming debate between Hillary and Trump?

    I'm guessing Hillary will be coughing up everything but the truth.
    Trump will not mention Bill Clinton helped create the 2008 financial crisis by failing to veto the repeal of Glass Steagall. Trump will also not mention that Bill Clinton tried to gain support to invade Iraq using the exact same reasons GW Bush later used. He will keep mentioning Hillary's e-mails that people do not really care about.
  3. Joined
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    23 Sep '16 14:36
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    I don't have any predictions but I'm hoping for another seizure.
    If you notice some of her seizures caught on film, it appears that they occur when she is startled by something.

    Perhaps Trump can pop a plastic bag or something during the debates.
  4. Joined
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    23 Sep '16 16:42
    Something to think about, Hillary is only 5 ft 4 in, but Trump is 6 ft. 2 in.

    Won't Hillary request a platform to stand on?

    No stairs, I think she is too frail for stairs. Maybe a mini elevator
  5. Zugzwang
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    23 Sep '16 23:081 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I think it should be interesting. Trump's goal will be to drag Clinton down to his level. If he can manage to degrade the debates into something akin to the GOP primary debates, he wins. If Clinton can manage to address Trump's moronic drivel without coming across as condescending, she wins.
    In the latest issue of the 'Atlantic', James Fallows writes a long article analyzing the debates.
    He believes that Donald Trump's strategy should be to engage Hillary Clinton in a 'mud-slinging contest'.
    Even if Donald Trump slings vastly more mud than Hillary Clinton does, many voters seem
    likely to excuse him while (hypocritically) condemning her for appearing to sling any mud at all.
    There's a sexist 'double standard' by which it's acceptable, even expected, for men to be
    as aggressive as possible in attacking their adversaries in politics, while all women never
    are supposed to appear aggressive or threatening at all toward any men in politics.

    In his article, 'Fear of a Female President', Peter Beinart concludes that the obsessive
    hatred of Hillary Clinton seems based more upon misogyny rather than her own individual flaws.

    "Except for her gender, Hillary Clinton is a highly conventional politician....
    She tailors her views to reflect the mainstream within her party."
    --Peter Beinart (October 2016 issue of the 'Atlantic' )

    "This spring (2016), 42 percent of Americans said they believed the United States has become 'too soft and feminine.'
    Imagine how these already unnerved Americans will react once there's a female president."
    --Peter Beinart

    This cultural political reality may explain in part why Hillary Clinton has used bellicose rhetoric.
    She feels a need to show that she's not too 'soft and feminine' to be a US President in wartime.
    Americans who are afraid of the United States becoming even more 'soft and feminine' will
    support Donald Trump, a ruthless man who likes to boast of his sexual conquests of women.
  6. Hmmm . . .
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    23 Sep '16 23:281 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In the latest issue of the 'Atlantic', James Fallows writes a long article analyzing the debates.
    He believes that Donald Trump's strategy should be to engage Hillary Clinton in a 'mud-slinging contest'.
    Even if Donald Trump slings vastly more mud than Hillary Clinton does, many voters seem
    likely to excuse him while (hypocritically) condemning her for ...[text shortened]... will
    support Donald Trump, a ruthless man who likes to boast of his sexual conquests of women.
    Thumbs up. Women who have struggled (and compromised) to excel in a male-hegemonic society—and so paving the way for other women—end up being criticized for how they have had to struggle and for the compromises made. Often they seem to be held to some fantasized standard of perfection (whose?), while men can be forgiven their errors (“only human, after all” ). The notion that Hillary Clinton is more dishonest or “crooked” than Donald Trump is a (laughable) meme that I doubt would work so well against a man. The notion that there is not a lot of misogyny in play in this election would be laughable—if it were not so ugly.
  7. Standard memberDeepThought
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    23 Sep '16 23:41
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In the latest issue of the 'Atlantic', James Fallows writes a long article analyzing the debates.
    He believes that Donald Trump's strategy should be to engage Hillary Clinton in a 'mud-slinging contest'.
    Even if Donald Trump slings vastly more mud than Hillary Clinton does, many voters seem
    likely to excuse him while (hypocritically) condemning her for ...[text shortened]... will
    support Donald Trump, a ruthless man who likes to boast of his sexual conquests of women.
    Thatcher seems to have got away with it, although the political discourse in the UK in the eighties wasn't as personalised as in the contemporary US.
  8. Hmmm . . .
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    24 Sep '16 00:011 edit
    My prediction:

    Trump will try to run his mouth over the moderator and Clinton, refusing all “fact-checking” from either one, try to get Clinton on the defensive with point-by-point responses to his ambiguous claims, and claim that—in any event—it’s all rigged against him. The goal is to set up a “lose-lose” scenario for Clinton, who can be accused of being too weak (if she doesn’t aggressively challenge Trump’s “right” to run roughshod over the whole thing), or too “loud” and aggressive if she goes toe-to-toe.

    Clinton will try to keep the debate focused on policy, but will not be shy about pointing out Trump’s mean-spiritedness against various minorities and women. She will accentuate her meme that we all pull together, versus The Donald’s individualistic messianism.

    If the moderator leaves Clinton to “twist in the wind”, while the Trumperator’s minions hoot with vicious glee, then Clinton loses—because civility and reason are lost. In a “twitterized” world, where volume trumps accuracy, belief floats free of facticity, and soundbites are parsed more rigorously than economic analysis, Trump wins.

    I hope that I am terribly wrong.
  9. Joined
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    24 Sep '16 00:03
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Thumbs up. Women who have struggled (and compromised) to excel in a male-hegemonic society—and so paving the way for other women—end up being criticized for how they have had to struggle and for the compromises made. Often they seem to be held to some fantasized standard of perfection (whose?), while men can be forgiven their errors (“only human, after all ...[text shortened]... ere is not a lot of misogyny in play in this election would be laughable—if it were not so ugly.
    Hillary is a woman? 😲
  10. Zugzwang
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    24 Sep '16 00:14
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Thatcher seems to have got away with it, although the political discourse in the UK in the eighties wasn't as personalised as in the contemporary US.
    The point is that politics remains a "man's world" in general, and the women who strive
    to succeed in it usually must attempt to appear *not* as too 'soft and feminine'.
    Indeed, in the corporate and academic worlds as well, women tend to be impelled to
    adopt masculine modes of dress and discourse. Much ink has been spilled over how
    women should follow 'power dressing' rules in order to succeed in business or academia,
    with the dominant presumption being that any woman who appears 'soft and feminine'
    will not be taken seriously by men.

    I can recall asking a colleague if he perceived me as 'too soft and feminine' at work.
    Smiling, he said that he certainly did not perceive me as masculine.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    24 Sep '16 11:33
    Originally posted by vistesd
    My prediction:

    Trump will try to run his mouth over the moderator and Clinton, refusing all “fact-checking” from either one, try to get Clinton on the defensive with point-by-point responses to his ambiguous claims, and claim that—in any event—it’s all rigged against him. The goal is to set up a “lose-lose” scenario for Clinton, who can be accused of bei ...[text shortened]... e parsed more rigorously than economic analysis, Trump wins.

    I hope that I am terribly wrong.
    Trump will be Trump at the debate.

    The rub is this; at this point the two major party candidates are really fishing for those who are currently expressing an intention to vote for one of the third party candidates - the chances of major defections from those saying they will vote for Trump or Hillary now is low, but traditionally third party candidate numbers drop sharply as the election approaches. So that is about 15-20% of the electorate who really don't like either candidate, but who most polls say lean more towards Clinton if the third party options are excluded.

    I really don't think these people are likely to be swayed by the types of antics Trump normally brings to the stage. I also don't agree that aggressive actions by male candidates towards female ones at debates are helpful to the former; Trump got roughed up by Carly Fiorina at one of the early debates and in Hillary's first Senate run, Rick Lazio made a grievous error at the debate:

    September 13, 2000 debate between Lazio and Clinton proved important. Lazio was on the warpath against soft money and the amounts of it coming from the Democratic National Committee into Clinton's campaign, and challenged Clinton to agree to ban soft money from both campaigns. He left his podium and waved his proposed paper agreement in Clinton's face;[98] many debate viewers thought he had invaded her personal space[14] and as a result Clinton's support among women voters solidified.[98]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York,_2000#Campaign

    In sum, I think that unless Hillary does an uncharacteristic debate gaffe that she has an excellent chance of expanding her shaky lead by a mere competent performance in response to Trumpian histrionics. Those might have worked with Republican primary voters, but as I have stated that is not the critical target audience here.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    24 Sep '16 12:11
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Trump will not mention Bill Clinton helped create the 2008 financial crisis by failing to veto the repeal of Glass Steagall. Trump will also not mention that Bill Clinton tried to gain support to invade Iraq using the exact same reasons GW Bush later used. He will keep mentioning Hillary's e-mails that people do not really care about.
    You do realize that Bill Clinton isn't running, don't you?
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    24 Sep '16 12:13
    Originally posted by vistesd
    My prediction:

    Trump will try to run his mouth over the moderator and Clinton, refusing all “fact-checking” from either one, try to get Clinton on the defensive with point-by-point responses to his ambiguous claims, and claim that—in any event—it’s all rigged against him. The goal is to set up a “lose-lose” scenario for Clinton, who can be accused of bei ...[text shortened]... e parsed more rigorously than economic analysis, Trump wins.

    I hope that I am terribly wrong.
    Civility and reason, like calling half of Trump supports what? If the moderator and Clinton
    and stick with facts it may be a level playing field. I agree Trump biggest weakness is his
    mouth, he doesn't have the years of experience to lie to people's faces as she does.
  14. Joined
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    24 Sep '16 16:34
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    You do realize that Bill Clinton isn't running, don't you?
    This again? That is irrelevant since he is campaigning for her and she is trying to ride his coat tail to get votes. You like others want to have it both ways. You want Bill's influence to get his wife elected while enjoying having a buffer between them that does not exist. Besides, when Bill fired the FBI director one day before Vince Foster was found dead to throw the FBI into disarray so they could not investigate Foster's murder I think it is dumb to believe Hillary was not aware of a coverup.

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/bill-clinton-his-life/
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    24 Sep '16 18:10
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    This again? That is irrelevant since he is campaigning for her and she is trying to ride his coat tail to get votes. You like others want to have it both ways. You want Bill's influence to get his wife elected while enjoying having a buffer between them that does not exist. Besides, when Bill fired the FBI director one day before Vince Foster was found d ...[text shortened]... ve Hillary was not aware of a coverup.

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/bill-clinton-his-life/
    I think Trump should bring up "Vince Foster was murdered" theories at the debate; that will certainly appeal to swing voters and cement his image as a reasonable person well-suited to be President of the United States.
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