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  1. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    21 May '18 02:44
    Interesting article from BBC.
    NZ has a growing prison problem maybe Norway has some answers.
    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180514-do-long-prison-sentences-deter-crime
  2. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    21 May '18 07:58
    The article has some random facts that I found to be interesting. I apprecaited that.

    However, as per usual, comparing the crime problems of Norway versus the US is a bit silly. A sparsely populated welfare state that is 95%+ homogeneous (86% of that is ethnic Norwegian, the rest recent descendants or recently emigrated white) and that has oil wealth and strong isntitutions is incredibly different from the situation that the US or NZ faces.

    Moreover, they can afford to experiment in Norway, and the people with whom they are experimenting do not have real roots that lead back to criminality.

    It is definitely a factor if we are dealing with someone who grew up fatherless and all of his best friends are in a gang, in an area that has had gangs for decades & decades.

    That does not describe Norway.

    My guess is that Norwegian criminality is more like one-offs & misfit criminals whose main issues may have been troubeld familial life, substance abuse, or mental health, as opposed to really systemic issues or communal poverty. Do correct me if I am wrong.

    American crime problems are different; I am guessing that the crime problems that face Maori and other NZ minorities may also be more similar to American issues than to Norwegian ones.
  3. Germany
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    21 May '18 10:56
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    The article has some random facts that I found to be interesting. I apprecaited that.

    However, as per usual, comparing the crime problems of Norway versus the US is a bit silly. A sparsely populated welfare state that is 95%+ homogeneous (86% of that is ethnic Norwegian, the rest recent descendants or recently emigrated white) and that has oil wealth ...[text shortened]... aori and other NZ minorities may also be more similar to American issues than to Norwegian ones.
    How do you think inmates' skin tone might impact their reoffending rate?
  4. Standard membervivify
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    21 May '18 11:59
    Long sentences *could* work as a deterrent in some cases, like when it comes to the rich. Often, rich and powerful people like celebrities get away with crimes the most certainly would've been punished for if they were average citizens. Billions in fines have been paid by Wall Street and big banks for unfair or fraudulent business practices, yet no one has gone to jail or admitted any wrong doing, because they simply bought their way out of trouble.

    If we started seeing a sudden influx of rich and powerful people going to jail for their crimes, long sentences would probably work for those types.

    Then, we have place like Singapore, with extremely low crime rates. Their sentences are so much long as they are harsh. Urinating in public nets extremely steep fines. And, of course, they are known for employing physical beatings such as caning. Obviously, I don't advocate violence as a punishment; but maybe prison should be more than just sitting around in a cell.
  5. Standard membervivify
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    21 May '18 12:012 edits
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    The article has some random facts that I found to be interesting. I apprecaited that.

    However, as per usual, comparing the crime problems of Norway versus the US is a bit silly. A sparsely populated welfare state that is 95%+ homogeneous (86% of that is ethnic Norwegian, the rest recent descendants or recently emigrated white) and that has oil wealth ...[text shortened]... aori and other NZ minorities may also be more similar to American issues than to Norwegian ones.
    You're missing the point. Long prison sentences aren't effective deterrents in the U.S. So maybe it could help to look at how other countries handle crime. Yes, our situation is different from places like Norway, but it can't hurt to get ideas from nations where crime is much lower.
  6. Joined
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    21 May '18 12:34
    Originally posted by @vivify
    You're missing the point. Long prison sentences aren't effective deterrents in the U.S. So maybe it could help to look at how other countries handle crime. Yes, our situation is different from places like Norway, but it can't hurt to get ideas from nations where crime is much lower.
    In some places where life on the inside isn't much different from life on the outside, the length of the prison sentence won't have all that much impact.
  7. Joined
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    21 May '18 12:37
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Long sentences *could* work as a deterrent in some cases, like when it comes to the rich. Often, rich and powerful people like celebrities get away with crimes the most certainly would've been punished for if they were average citizens. Billions in fines have been paid by Wall Street and big banks for unfair or fraudulent business practices, yet no one has ...[text shortened]... te violence as a punishment; but maybe prison should be more than just sitting around in a cell.
    Making this about the rich ??
    Spoken like a true communist !! 😀
  8. Standard membervivify
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    21 May '18 13:211 edit
    Originally posted by @mghrn55
    Making this about the rich ??
    Spoken like a true communist !! 😀
    When you're rich, you have more to lose; lengthy prison sentences mean more to the rich. Fear of death is often proportional to amount of wealth; same with fear of incarceration.
  9. Standard membervivify
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    21 May '18 13:33
    It should also be said that prison should be corrective, not just punitive. That's something often overlooked with prison systems. There are instances of inmates receiving an education (such as bachelor degrees) while in prison, and this is something we need much more of. Prisoners should have counselors and case workers to help them get back on track as productive members of society.

    Except for certain professions like child-care, I don't think employers should be allowed to ask about criminal history. That just makes it harder to get a good job, and only encourages recidivism.
  10. Joined
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    21 May '18 14:09
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Interesting article from BBC.
    NZ has a growing prison problem maybe Norway has some answers.
    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180514-do-long-prison-sentences-deter-crime
    They should adopt the US prison model.

    Arrest them, throw then in jail, have them get gang raped until they join a gang to help protect them. Naturally, the revolving door mandated they be released back into society for a short time with a prison record and no hope of finding work, so then they turn to the gangs to help survive.

    It works really well here.
  11. Joined
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    21 May '18 14:14
    Originally posted by @mghrn55
    Making this about the rich ??
    Spoken like a true communist !! 😀
    it is a proven fact the rich get away with things the poor have to pay for...nothing communist about saying it.
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    21 May '18 15:58
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    it is a proven fact the rich get away with things the poor have to pay for...nothing communist about saying it.
    Certain rich folks never have to worry about jail.....except maybe Bill Cosby.

    There are always a few exceptions.
  13. Standard membervivify
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    21 May '18 16:11
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Certain rich folks never have to worry about jail.....except maybe Bill Cosby.
    Cosby was convicted and handed a 10 year sentence.
  14. Joined
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    22 May '18 09:58
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Cosby was convicted and handed a 10 year sentence.
    Hence "except".
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    22 May '18 12:09
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    The article has some random facts that I found to be interesting. I apprecaited that.

    However, as per usual, comparing the crime problems of Norway versus the US is a bit silly. .
    The comparison is with incarceration.
    Not crime per se.

    Read the article ... carefully.
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