Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscribersonhouse
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    08 Nov '19 17:401 edit
    @whodey
    What you say in jest is the truth. Trump IS insane. He is incapable of dealing with more than one issue at a time. And even in that one issue, it has to be put to him one POINT at a time or else he fizzes out. Not the stable genius after all.
    More like the assswipe criminal he really is.
    So you are clearly quite happy with a mad dog POTUS. Like I said, YOU and your buddies will be reviled when all his crimes come to the surface. He has been a criminal for DECADES. Now his taxes are going to be delivered any week now, probably after SCOTUS refuses to take the case from lower courts.
    THEN he will be in REAL trouble.
    He already said he will be cooked if a real tax expert reads his returns. Maybe you forgot THAT quote.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Nov '19 18:141 edit
    @mott-the-hoople said

    Because of doj/cia corruption.
    I love how you guys are so pro law enforcement when they are shooting unarmed blacks, but against law enforcement when they uphold the law against your Tangelo president.


    And oh, wait a minute, who's in charge of the DoJ? Isn't it your buddy William Barr? When did the hammer drop for you that he might be corrupt?
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Nov '19 18:17
    @mott-the-hoople said
    investigation have been opened...do you suggest things like this happen the very next day?
    Any day now...
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    08 Nov '19 19:09
    @suzianne said
    Any day now...
    we agree
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 00:24
    @no1marauder said
    It is an interesting fact that Shokin actually helped Zlochevsky, Burisma's founder:

    "British authorities had frozen $23 million in a money-laundering probe, but Shokin's office failed to send documents British authorities needed to prosecute Zlochevsky. The case eventually unraveled and the assets were unfrozen."

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10 ...[text shortened]... the President removed in the coup in 2014 which the US and other Western nations actively supported.
    In fact, the UK's Ambassador to the Ukraine lambasted Shokin's office for not cooperating with the investigation of Burisma's founder months before Biden demanded his removal:

    "While giving Shokin a last chance to shape up (Pyatt says, “We want to work with Prosecutor General Shokin so the PGO is leading the fight against corruption.&rdquo😉, the ambassador criticizes “officials at the PGO’s office” for not providing documents that were needed for the British investigation of Burisma owner Zlochevskiy and effectively allowing Zlochevskiy to transfer $23 million of what Pyatt says were Ukrainian taxpayer assets to Cyprus. In other words, Pyatt is critical of the prosecutor’s office for not aiding in investigations of Burisma’s owner, which was in line with Biden’s criticism that the office was blocking corruption investigations. Pyatt specifically called for the investigation and removal of officials who were involved in the failure to help the British authorities investigate Zlochevskiy:

    “We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.

    For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky [cq], the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

    Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result, the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

    The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.”

    https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/
  6. Joined
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    09 Nov '19 02:34
    @no1marauder said
    In fact, the UK's Ambassador to the Ukraine lambasted Shokin's office for not cooperating with the investigation of Burisma's founder months before Biden demanded his removal:

    "While giving Shokin a last chance to shape up (Pyatt says, “We want to work with Prosecutor General Shokin so the PGO is leading the fight against corruption.&rdquo😉, the ambassador criticizes “offic ...[text shortened]... y terminated.”

    https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/
    So Shokin says he was fired for investigating corruption and his critics say he was not investigating corruption like he should have. Biden says he was fighting corruption, Trump says he was fighting corruption and Shokin says he was fighting corruption. Everybody and their fargin brother says they were fighting fargin corruption. The corrupt oligarchs probably say the same thing.

    Tell me something I don't fargin know. That is why Trump cannot be removed from office. You have to prove somebody is not fighting corruption because even the crooks claim that they are fighting corruption. But who are the crooks?

    Who is trying to find out who embezzled the 1.8 billion dollars? Why was the oligarch that owns Privatbank and lost 1.8 billion dollars rewarded with a VISA to travel to my country when he was banned before?

    In what universe does losing 1.8 billion dollars in American taxpayer money deserve reward? Either that oligarch provided the US government with a service of some sort or the oligarch money laundered it and sent it to a certain cause. Maybe to ship weapons to some conflict Obama supported at the time. Syria, Yemen? Who knows for sure, but nobody rewards losing that much money unless it served a purpose.

    Why is the corporate news media ignoring the 1.8 billion dollars? Somebody in the higher positions of power must consider that money well spent that we called embezzled. Why else would the corporate news media ignore that much money being embezzled?

    Who is really trying to find out where that money went? All I know is that after Shokin got fired nobody found out where the money went. Why should I assume Shokin was the obstacle? At best they were all obstacles bought off by the oligarchs. After all, nobody found the fargin money!
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 02:59
    @metal-brain said
    So Shokin says he was fired for investigating corruption and his critics say he was not investigating corruption like he should have. Biden says he was fighting corruption, Trump says he was fighting corruption and Shokin says he was fighting corruption. Everybody and their fargin brother says they were fighting fargin corruption. The corrupt oligarchs probably say the sa ...[text shortened]... best they were all obstacles bought off by the oligarchs. After all, nobody found the fargin money!
    I have no idea what you are talking about. What $1.8 billion? Is that another Solomon fantasy?

    We know what Trump was doing and it certainly wasn't "fighting corruption".
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    09 Nov '19 03:08
    @no1marauder said
    I have no idea what you are talking about. What $1.8 billion? Is that another Solomon fantasy?

    We know what Trump was doing and it certainly wasn't "fighting corruption".
    Your knowledge of this subject is horrible. If you don't know about the 1.8 billion that was embezzled you are not qualified to even discuss this. Get back to me when you learn about it.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 04:53
    @metal-brain said
    Your knowledge of this subject is horrible. If you don't know about the 1.8 billion that was embezzled you are not qualified to even discuss this. Get back to me when you learn about it.
    Sounds like some made up tale by some nut right winger. Unlike you, I don't swallow every one of those hook, line and sinker. Provide a link or an article and I'll look at it though it would probably help if it had something to do with the subject of the thread.
  10. Joined
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    09 Nov '19 05:46
    @no1marauder said
    Sounds like some made up tale by some nut right winger. Unlike you, I don't swallow every one of those hook, line and sinker. Provide a link or an article and I'll look at it though it would probably help if it had something to do with the subject of the thread.
    Hillary Clinton showed off her tin foil hat when she called Tulsi a Russian asset. You swallowed that though, didn't you? You have posted FOX news web links before so this should be good enough for you.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/fbi-investigating-ukrainian-oligarch-kolomoisky-over-alleged-financial-crimes-reports
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 06:24
    @metal-brain said
    Hillary Clinton showed off her tin foil hat when she called Tulsi a Russian asset. You swallowed that though, didn't you? You have posted FOX news web links before so this should be good enough for you.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/fbi-investigating-ukrainian-oligarch-kolomoisky-over-alleged-financial-crimes-reports
    I didn't pay any attention to HRC's absurd claims about Gabbard.

    There's nothing in that article about $1.8 billion in US aid or anything having to do with Joe Biden.
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    09 Nov '19 07:30
    @no1marauder said
    I didn't pay any attention to HRC's absurd claims about Gabbard.

    There's nothing in that article about $1.8 billion in US aid or anything having to do with Joe Biden.
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/1-8-billion-imf-ukraine-bailout-money-deposited-in-ukraine-oligarch-kolomoyskyis-cyprus-offshore-bank-account/5472971
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 21:01
    @metal-brain said
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/1-8-billion-imf-ukraine-bailout-money-deposited-in-ukraine-oligarch-kolomoyskyis-cyprus-offshore-bank-account/5472971
    OK, I wasted some time and looked into this matter. First, the article you cite was written in August 2015 and significant developments have occurred since. In particular, PrivatBank was nationalized by the Ukrainian government in December 2016. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-38365579

    Second, there are a series of legal actions to recoup monies allegedly siphoned off by Ihor Kolomoisky, mostly by improper loans to himself and business associates from PrivatBank:

    "On May 21, the nationalized Ukrainian PrivatBank filed a remarkable civil case against its prior owners Ihor Kolomoisky and Gennady Bogolyubov in the state court of Delaware. The three co-defendants are US citizens in Miami and nineteen anonymous companies."

    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/how-kolomoisky-does-business-in-the-united-states/

    "In Dec 2017, the High Court of London ordered a freeze on some $2.5 billion worth of assets held by Kolomoyskyy and Boholyubov. They deny the charges."

    https://www.forbes.com/profile/ihor-kolomoyskyy/#1032b69751dc

    And it seems that an FBI criminal probe:

    "The FBI is investigating Ihor Kolomoisky, a Ukrainian oligarch who has sparred with the country’s current president, according to three people briefed on the probe.

    The investigators are scrutinizing potential financial crimes, including money laundering, according to the sources, who say the probe is wide-ranging and has been under way for quite some time. Kolomoisky has not been charged with any crime, and a lawyer representing him said he denies any wrongdoing."

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/billionaire-ukrainian-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-under-investigation-by-fbi?fbclid=IwAR0QZsoZUU-3CH77vUYnqBvLniGmTOKmGVOiNoIdYD0ZEXo_NMPb4au6WVQ

    So it's not like he is being ignored; the legal systems in several countries are being utilized in order to discover any wrongdoing on his part and provide appropriate remedies if the law so requires. So, I do not see the necessity for any type of political intervention as you seem to be suggesting.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 21:11
    George Kent, deputy assistant secretary of state for Eastern Europe, who also served as deputy head of mission at the U.S. embassy in Kyiv from 2015 to 2018, testified as to some interesting information as regards Shokin and Lutsenko:

    "Kent corroborated that U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch was removed from office as a result of a covert smear campaign led by Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani; two vengeful Ukrainian prosecutors, former prosecutors general Viktor Shokin and Yuriy Lutsenko; sitting anti-corruption prosecutor Nazar Kholodnytsky and deputy prosecutor general Kostiantyn Kulyk.

    Shokin, Lutsenko and Kholodnytsky had their reasons to hold a grudge against the U.S. ambassador, and Kent explains why the U.S. was disappointed in them: They sabotaged important cases and blocked law enforcement reform.

    Kent describes Viktor Shokin, who served as prosecutor general in 2015-2016, as “a typical Ukraine prosecutor who lived a lifestyle in excess of his government salary, who never prosecuted anybody known for having committed a crime and who covered up crimes that were known to have been committed.”

    He was fired under pressure from the U.S. State Department, the International Monetary Fund and the European Union. His removal, Kent says, became a condition for an IMF loan guarantee.

    The last straw was Shokin’s obstruction of the so-called “diamond prosecutors case” into two prosecutors who extorted money from local businessmen.

    One of them turned out to be Shokin’s former driver. Shokin had everyone involved in the case fired, including detectives, judges and even security officials, and destroyed the special unit that was supposed to investigate corruption within the prosecutor’s office.


    “Shokin went to war… protecting his associate,” Kent recalled in his testimony. “He eventually managed to force out everybody associated with that (case).”

    Later, a resentful Shokin fed Giuliani the lie that he had been dismissed under pressure from then-Vice President Biden, who allegedly wanted to block an investigation into corruption by the Ukrainian gas company Burisma, where his son Hunter was on the board of directors.

    However, Kent said, it was the State Department’s idea to engage Vice President Biden to push Poroshenko to remove Shokin. Similarly, former Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk had been pressured to have one of his corrupt allies, lawmaker Mykola Martynenko, resign, Kent said.

    Shokin’s successor in office was Yuriy Lutsenko, a prosecutor general appointed by Poroshenko despite the absence of a law degree. And he was “not any more serious about reforming the corrupt prosecutorial service than Shokin had been.”

    Lutsenko spearheaded the disinformation campaign against Yovanovitch by spreading lies about her and the U.S. embassy through Giuliani and the controversial writer John Solomon, who was the first to publicize the prosecutor general’s false claims.

    Kent actually shared a story in which a drunk Lutsenko told the deputy head of NABU, Gizo Uglava, about his slanderous interviews to Solomon before they were published.

    Kent said Lutsenko’s unwillingness to do anything started within several months into his term, but the breaking point came in late 2017. He undermined an investigation into a ring of migration service officials who sold Ukrainian biometric passports by exposing the undercover agents working on the case.

    Some of the holders of those illegally obtained passports applied for U.S. visas, and the embassy was angry because the scheme threatened U.S. security as well as Ukraine’s visa-free regime with the EU, Kent said.

    Both the diamond prosecutors and the passport cases are well known in Ukraine as well as Lutsenko’s harrassment of anti-corruption activists."

    https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/george-kent-speaks-bitter-truth-about-ukrainian-prosecutors-oligarchs-internet-trolls.html
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    09 Nov '19 21:21
    @no1marauder said
    OK, I wasted some time and looked into this matter. First, the article you cite was written in August 2015 and significant developments have occurred since. In particular, PrivatBank was nationalized by the Ukrainian government in December 2016. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-38365579

    Second, there are a series of legal actions to recoup monies allegedly siphoned of ...[text shortened]... So, I do not see the necessity for any type of political intervention as you seem to be suggesting.
    "So it's not like he is being ignored; the legal systems in several countries are being utilized in order to discover any wrongdoing on his part"

    And how long will that take? Oh how the wheels of justice move so slow. Meanwhile the oligarch who misplaced the 1.8 billion dollars is living in exile in what country? Mine. The USA.

    Rewarded for losing 1.8 billion? Say what???!!
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